SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Not sure if I am seeking advice, or just needing to rant, but here goes.

As part of MC following WW disclosure of her PA back in August 2020, we have regular reviews of our progress, and commit to continuing R for a period of time following each C-day (Commitment Day). The periods are not fixed, and have been as short as 4 weeks, or as long as 3 months. The idea is that we commit to keep going for as long as we can see that there is progress to be made and will not quit during that time to provide the other partner with certainty. The next C-day is in a couple of weeks.

At this stage, I'm not sure things are getting better for me - not sure I have it in me to move forwards, and if that is the case, whether there is any point to prolonging the inevitable. I guess I'm seeking advice as to how to move on from being stuck, and if others have any supportive suggestions on things I can do.

So as background, WW and I are currently in MC following her disclosure of an 18 month PA with (what I thought was) a mutual acquaintance of ours in August 2020 during the COVID lockdowns. Unlike many of you on here, I was completely oblivious to what was going on. I did not suspect a thing, even though looking back, the signs were all there. the COVID lockdowns caused a pause to their PA whilst we were all required to stay at home.

WW became quite down and depressed during the lockdown period, so at my urging she took advantage of our Government's offer for free IC sessions via video conferencing during the COVID lockdowns. It was during those sessions with her counsellor that WW disclosed details of her PA. WW worked with the counsellor, and decided that she wished to end it with the AP and R with me.

WW broke the news to me during one of her sessions. As had happened before, I was invited to join the session to discuss issues that WW wished me to know from their sessions. After some preliminary discussions with the counsellor, I was asked to prepare myself and promise to allow WW to finish before responding. WW disclosed the PA, the identity of her AP, along with details of the A. WW promised she had ended things, and initiated NC, and wanted desperately to R with me. Honestly, I felt trapped, stunned, as the details poured out. WW had prepared detailed timelines, copies of SMS, whatsapp messages, emails etc. with AP including NC letter and the responses she had received from AP, and along with a detailed letter on why she wanted to R and not continue the A. I had "won" she told me (I didn't even know I was in a competition!) I have been in contact with the OBS and am satisfied that WW is being as truthful and transparent as to the details of the A.

Since that time, WW has been a "model wayward". Working to reconnect with me, becoming accountable, being forthcoming with her whereabouts at all times, passwords to phones/email/etc and continuing with IC, and initiating MC when I (thought) I was ready, even offering multiple times to submit to a poly if I needed to know anything else. (I don't - I'm satisfied that I know everything I want to know and more!), as well as disclosing her A to parents and our teenage children etc. She knows she has wounded me and our family deeply and takes full ownership of everything. Basically, she is more than doing the work. I can't claim to be the model BH in all this, and I have made some spectacular mistakes and missteps, but here we are.

But..... (and you all knew there would be a but)...

There are 2 things I just can't seem to get past.

1. I was oblivious, and I was part of a "pick me" dance without my knowledge. The way DD occurred, I really didn't have an opportunity to start a 180. I feel like I have been weighed and measured by WW and IC and deemed worthy in absentia. I wasn't really part of the process. I just can't help but feel I've been cheated, even in the R.

2. Sexually, WW was basically another person with AP, where nothing appeared to be off limits to her. Sex acts that have never been on the table in our M were offered freely and enthusiastically to AP. The SL of WW and I has always been what could be best described as very vanilla, limited to some basic making out and missionary with frequency matching a LD WW. WW describes that time as role playing and "being another person", and indeed WW refers to herself as "she" when describing that time even now. Since the disclosure, she emphatically states that she does not want to be that person, that she is deeply embarrassed and mortified at what "she" did, and absolutely has no desire to role play that person at any time in the future. So basically, AP has a part of WW that I never (and will never) experience. WW says she equates those acts with a deep shame, and will not entertain sharing any of that part with me - she says that "isn't her, and never was" and that the mere thought of it "repulses her". I should add that vanilla is offered freely and frequently which is a key difference to before, and is clearly part of the work she is putting in.

IC and MC encourage us to state our boundaries, and emphasise that neither one of us should feel pressured into pushing beyond those boundaries, and should be respected by the other party. I understand the concept and agree with this.

but....

After working through all the other issues, I just don't know how to move past the 2 above. I don't seem to be able to process them, and it doesn't seem to be changing. The gnawing knot in my stomach when I think of those 2 things doesn't seem to have changed at all.

So I am looking for advice I guess, encouragement maybe? Do I need to give it more time? commit to a further 1, 3 or 6 months? or do I call time and accept the fallout as our family disintegrates.

BH 50
WW 46
DDay August 2020.

" I had "won" she told me "

Oooohhhh, lucky lucky you. You’ve won the booby prize.

And now she and the IC are giving you the Participation Award!

Me? I’d sooner lose with dignity.

She seems to be doing a lot of things right.

But,3 things shout "wrong" IMO.

She sees herself as a prize. You won. There was no competition. You married her. She clearly compared you to him,and eventually, after nearly 2 years,declared you the winner. That she still feels this way, is extremely troubling. Let's be clear..you are the prize,not her. You are the loyal,loving,faithful, non abusive spouse..not her. She is not a prize.

She refers to herself in the third person,when discussing the affair. As if she is not the same person. That relinquishes her of responsibility. That's a big problem.

And the sex thing. You will get a lot of mixed responses to that. Most men believe if she enthusiastically gave him things she had previously denied you,then those things should be on the table for you as well. I am one of the few women who agrees with that. For example, if my husband had always refused to please me orally, but did it for nearly 2 years with his AP, and then continued to refuse me, I would call bullshit on that. Obviously I would want him to be a willing,and enthusiastic participant. I would never attempt to force him in any way. But I do believe that would be a deal breaker for me. If he wanted to do it for her,but not me,that would tell me how he feels about ME..never mind how he felt about her. It would tell me how he feels about my pleasure,and my wants. And I wouldn't want to be with a man who dismissed my wants, while freely giving those things to a woman he cheated with. I would divorce him over it. Not because he wouldn't go down on me,but because he didn't want to. There's a difference.

[This message edited by HellFire at 1:40 PM, Monday, March 13th]

Since the disclosure, she emphatically states that she does not want to be that person, that she is deeply embarrassed and mortified at what "she" did, and absolutely has no desire to role play that person at any time in the future. So basically, AP has a part of WW that I never (and will never) experience. WW says she equates those acts with a deep shame, and will not entertain sharing any of that part with me - she says that "isn't her, and never was" and that the mere thought of it "repulses her". I should add that vanilla is offered freely and frequently which is a key difference to before, and is clearly part of the work she is putting in.

A few thoughts. That pattern (super freak with the AP, uptight nun with the BH) is a classic Madonna/Whore dichotomy. Usually, this exists because there is a part of her that actually enjoys the freaky sex and wants to break free, but due to social conditioning and such she can't bring herself to do it with the husband. I offer that up first because if you wish to R, you'll need to wrap your mind around this and accept it as one of the deep human flaws of your deeply flawed WW. You must find a way to love her flaws as part of her whole person, or R won't work.

That said, the "AP has a part of WW that I never will" is something that many, perhaps most, BH's can't get past. And should not be asked to get past. No matter how "model" the WW is in the aftermath of Dday, no matter how much work she invests in R, sometimes the injury to the BH is just too deep. It is likely that there will be a voice inside of you that resents the vanilla sex she now frequently offers up (query whether it's likely that frequency will taper with the passage of time), because it reminds you of the neopolitan sex that is being denied to you. You're not quite 2 years out. 2 years (plus or minus) is the point in time for many BH's where the rage has subsided enough that the eyes become clear. Stretching out before you is what we call the "Plain of Lethal Flatness" -- that dull realization that this is as good as it's gonna get. That the absence of the neopolitan sex so eagerly offered up to the AP resides in your marriage like the nose on the face of the Great Sphinx, where it will be as long as you remain married. There's no shame in you feeling this way, nor in acting on those feelings. It is 100% normal. It's okay to leave the marriage even if your WW is 100% remorseful and doing everything she should be doing.

This fact pattern has been the subject of several epic 50-page threads here. From the perspective of a BH, it's a classic "lose/lose" scenario. If she doesn't offer up the neopolitan sex to the BH, the BH resents that the AP got it, but he is denied. If she does offer it up after Dday (where it was denied prior to Dday), the BH will feel the offer is ersatz, insincere. Or, worse, that she's fantasizing about the AP.

I think you'll find that a large percentage of men, possibly most men, could not R under this fact pattern, no matter how remorseful the WW is and no matter how hard she is working. That's a perfectly acceptable and understandable outcome. You're not "failing" in any way by deciding that you want a chance to start over. At age 50 Sir Topham Hat has plenty of good years. I'd commend to you the threads by a poster here, Waitedwaytoolong (he recently commented on another thread in this forum), who divorced his WW after 5 years (the last several of which were spent staggering along through the Plain of Lethal Flatness (POLF)). Like yours, his WW threw all of the porn star sex at the AP that he desired, though she had never thrown it to WWTL before DDay. Unlike yours, she tried throwing some of the porn star sex toward WWTL after Dday, but he couldn't accept it because to him it felt forced and ersatz. In the end, he was not able to look at his WW with eyes of unvarnished love, and he didn't want to live the rest of his life in a charade.

[This message edited by Butforthegrace at 7:33 PM, Monday, March 13th]

So I am looking for advice I guess, encouragement maybe? Do I need to give it more time? commit to a further 1, 3 or 6 months?

These are tough times. All times are tough in the aftermath of infidelity.

There is a general timeframe given around here that it takes roughly 2-5 years to 'heal' from infidelity. In my many years here, including my own personal experience, the 2-3 year mark can often be the most difficult. The initial trauma has passed, we have a pretty good idea of the facts, and we are working towards getting back to a 'normal' life. Often, near this time, we really start to get introspective, and start thinking longer term. We will ask if this is a good as it gets, and is it enough. Many like to refer to this as the POLF(Plain of Lethal Flatness). Almost a crossroad, if you will.

My question is, barring a time machine, what do you want? You are 100% at right to continue, or terminate, the marriage. If you want encouragement, I would say that your wife's behavior, post infidelity, is far rarer than most. She sought out help, confessed in what she thought would be the best setting(I believe), has given you all information freely, and to this date, has backed up her commitment to the marriage. The sex is a real hard part for many men, and I understand that completely. I also understand her shame, and the further psychological damage it could cause her to engage in acts that were not in her normal realm. The real issue is if you can accept it.

If you're ambivalent, my suggestion would be to go a little bit further in the reconciliation process. I don't think that it's a bad idea to get information(legal) as to what a divorce would look like, just so you have that knowledge. Just gathering information to divorce may help you lean one way or the other.

There must be a female version to the whore/madonna thing. You are the equivalent to the madonna. That means you are safe and she wanted baaaaddd so she cheated. I find that insulting to all of us. It means our sexual needs are not important.

As a female I cannot understand a woman giving sexual favors to another that she denies to her spouse.

Whatever you choose I hope you get ALL of your needs met, physically and emotionally.

There must be a female version to the whore/madonna thing. You are the equivalent to the madonna.

Not sure what you're saying here. The "Madonna/Whore" complex applies specifically to women who feel (often due to social pressures in their upbringing) that they must be prim and proper around their husband (a Madonna), but inside wish they could be more sexually free (a whore). It is a classic fact pattern underlying wives cheating.

Infidelity is absolutely a competition we never knew we were in.

Your wife’s behavior during the A is almost universal for a WS. At some point I accept what happened, I just ever have to be ‘okay’ with it. I focus on who she is now versus her worst days.

And I agree with a member here that infidelity is always a deal breaker. In my case, I chose to stay after a couple years of work, but we rebuilt the M from the ground up with a new deal. I set the pace of my healing, I required a number of new boundaries and transparency from my wife and I asked the 5 billion questions I needed to ask to try and understand the whole thing.

That said, you don’t owe her a last chance.

It takes a long time to heal from this regardless of the path you choose going forward.

Several angles to this…

First of all – you don’t have to be there. You CAN decide this is enough, and move on.
I personally think this is a key-element in recovery, both marital recovery and personal recovery. If you feel you are being forced to accept a compromise you aren’t willing to take on… you are totally free to leave this marriage.
Same applies to her. If she isn’t happy or whatever… she can move on.
It’s this dynamic that I think is key to recovery – realizing you are free to chose your options. Sometimes they might not be what you want – like choosing between ground sheep-liver or old fish for dinner – but these choices will move you along to another place, and from that place there might be more or better options. Once you and your wife realize that the only impact you can have on saving the marriage is by making it the less bad of two options for the other…

Second: I think you have a very capable MC. Just remember: he can only suggest, not do. The two-month commitment and all that… YOU can decide 2 minutes after giving a 2 month commitment to change your mind. Granted, rapid switches can and will impact recovery, but it’s ALWAYS within your control. Don’t feel powerless, because you have all the power you need.

Third: I get the "she" talk… I often suggest that the betrayed husband sees his wife as two people in the same body. The W the wife that you want, and the WW wayward wife that was in infidelity. You want the W back, and want her to grow and that is done at the expense and demise of WW. Doesn’t mean W get’s off easy or any dismissive action. It’s just a practical way of dealing with what is for most people a immense betrayal of self.

Fourth: I think affairs are very seldom about the sex. They are about validation, and people get validated by using/paying with sex. I think that applies to both men and women, but if I were to stick to general gender-roles then I think that often a man sees an affair partner as a "conquest" that confirms he still has the power to go out in the field and catch his prey, and dominate it with sexual acts. For women (and this a very broad and not all-inclusive semi-generalization) the infidelity is about still having what is needed to be considered sexual or a catch. Paid for – in part – by participating in sex.
I’m not stating women are passive or don’t enjoy it or anything of that nature. For me – I think that by the time quality of sex becomes a factor for an ongoing affair it’s too late. It’s like a burglary where the crime is committed when the window is broken, not by the number of trips the thief does to and from his car with the valuables.

Fifth: Maybe she sees intimacy with you as "making love" while the intimacy with AP was sex.

I think you have very valid issues. I think you are well within your rights to address them in MC, and make it clear how you feel. I realize the above statement about men and women borders on generalization and even might incur some stone-age caveman behavior, but I do think a lot of our actions are controlled by very deep, ingrown/bred expectations and behaviors. I have seen many instances here on SI where especially betrayed husbands go to great lengths to reclaim their wives, only to not know what to do once they have been dragged back to the cave. Back to the first point: just remember you have choices, and in your instance I think your option might be to address those choices and make it clear that you have doubts.

You have been trapped by your description. I wouldn't wait until C-day to change your mind. She doesn't deserve certainty after what she did. You seem like the type to take these commitment periods seriously. But your wife has proven she will break a vow. It's not a fair way to heal to put an honest promise against a promise that has a decent chance of being a lie.

I'm three years in to R. I know other folks will say you both need to be all in. My opinion is that you need to have the self premission to quit or change your mind at any time for any reason or no reason at all. You don't seem to have given yourself that freedom.

My promise to my wife is a long the lines of "If I'm unhappy you'll know it, and if I ask for a divorce it won't be a surprise."

To address your points...

1. I was oblivious, and I was part of a "pick me" dance without my knowledge. The way DD occurred, I really didn't have an opportunity to start a 180. I feel like I have been weighed and measured by WW and IC and deemed worthy in absentia. I wasn't really part of the process. I just can't help but feel I've been cheated, even in the R.

Do you feel like you have been railroaded into choosing reconciliation over divorce? Do you need more time to process what's happened and make an informed decision?

If so, there's nothing wrong with claiming that for yourself. Your wife chose unilaterally to cheat. She doesn't get to also decide unilaterally that you will remain married afterward.

Even if she is the "model wayward," that doesn't entitle her to reconciliation. You get to decide whether you can live with what she did in the past. You get to decide whether this relationship is acceptable to you or not. You get to set the terms by which you will agree to remain married (or not).... which leads me to my next point.

2. Sexually, WW was basically another person with AP, where nothing appeared to be off limits to her. Sex acts that have never been on the table in our M were offered freely and enthusiastically to AP. The SL of WW and I has always been what could be best described as very vanilla, limited to some basic making out and missionary with frequency matching a LD WW. WW describes that time as role playing and "being another person", and indeed WW refers to herself as "she" when describing that time even now. Since the disclosure, she emphatically states that she does not want to be that person, that she is deeply embarrassed and mortified at what "she" did, and absolutely has no desire to role play that person at any time in the future. So basically, AP has a part of WW that I never (and will never) experience. WW says she equates those acts with a deep shame, and will not entertain sharing any of that part with me - she says that "isn't her, and never was" and that the mere thought of it "repulses her". I should add that vanilla is offered freely and frequently which is a key difference to before, and is clearly part of the work she is putting in.

Were you satisfied with the quality and frequency of your sex life before Dday? If you weren't interested in the acts she did with AP, then I don't think you should pressure her to do them simply because you feel like you need to stake a claim to those acts. Besides, you don't know how it will actually make you feel in the moment. You might not enjoy it and it will just add fuel to your reel of "mind movies."

But if you weren't happy with your sex life before, you should let her know that the status quo isn't satisfactory. If you're going to reconcile, it won't be to go back to the old marriage in which she cheated... you want a brand new marriage. And part of that brand new marriage means that you don't want to be limited to Prix Fixe menu of sex; you want at least the option to request something from the complete ala carte offerings that were available to AP. Of course, she is free to say no at any time... and you're free to decide whether you're happy with that.

Lastly, I don't think you should buy the excuse that your wife was "another person" and entertain her use of third-person pronouns when describing the things she did while she was in the affair. Any time she utters the word "she," promptly correct her: "She didn't cheat on me... you did."

If she's distancing herself from her behavior and her choices in this way, then she is not taking ownership of and responsibility for her actions. The reality is, she had this affair. The person who did those acts with the OM is still the same person that you're married to. If she doesn't come to terms to that, and dig deep into what aspects of her character and flaws in her value system led to the betrayal, then she is giving license to Mrs. Jekyll to reemerge again some day.

[This message edited by BluerThanBlue at 5:20 PM, Monday, March 13th]

Posting this response with the caveat that everyone is different, but if I was in your shoes…

1. Control. All of your control over your own life was taken from you during the A, which is true of all affairs and deeply damaging. It sounds to me like the IC, MC and WW have very firm control over this R process. You have a little as you can always choose to leave (only during carefully established time periods though) and you are asked to adhere to a structure that was not of your own making. For me that would be a no. I’m not saying I would leave, it’s been seven years and I’m still here (though I’ve certainly had my packed suitcase in the car and pulled out of the driveway on a number of occasions). But, I would definitely say I need to be in charge of the R at this point. Counselors (again in my opinion) can have a complicated role in general and in your case in particular. In general, it can feel like there are 4 or 5 people in your marriage instead of 2. In your case in particular, I think it could feel like at least one of these counselors was complicit, or at least present for the A. Anyone who was even tangentially related to my husband’s A is persona non grata for me. I still have to deal with some of them for various reasons but there is a solid basis of distrust which is not going to go away.

2. The sex thing. I’m not sure how to think about that and I’m not a guy. My experience has been that the genders have pretty different feelings about sex. Do you know the full specifics of what she did with him? Or maybe you didn’t want to know which would be completely reasonable. I think the specifics matter because like —HellFire said —if it was something like giving me oral sex that would be pleasurable to me and should be much more than a hassle to him then I would call bullshit on that. That’s not fair. If it was some crazy abusive thing he was letting her do, like letting him pee on her or i don’t know what then maybe she just thinks it’s gross and wouldn’t want to do that. I guess you should have the option but most likely you wouldn’t want to anyway. Or maybe just once like to settle the score or something. It seems like it is a matter of flexibility - or the lack thereof. These counselors are setting up these "boundaries" but with like zero flexibility. No one should be abused or disrespected against their will. But what discussions are taking place about these issues? I asked my husband to do some really stupid things in the beginning, like call the OW and tell her a bunch of mean stuff on her message machine. Those were dumb and meant nothing, but the fact he was willing to let me decide what needed to be done built a lot of trust with me.

3. Being on the fence. That just seems really normal. Of course you’re still feeling ambivalent. I don’t think you will end up like me - still dealing with stuff seven years out (but that is because I only found out about the PA 8months ago. I also have 7 years of his lying to process.) But from what your timing sounds like it seems normal to still be pretty ambivalent. Your WW’s 18 month affair lasted a long time. Some people say double the time of the A and that’s how long it takes to start to recover. So for you that would be 36 months to recover

At the end of the day the hypocrisy she expects you to take sounds like a deal breaker for you.

Doesn't knowing that your WS has shared very intimate things with someone other than you bring you shame? I mean having proof that your W isn't into you as sexually as her AP definately causes mental damage.

You are never going to forget the above BTW. Everybody can say things around it all they want to, but agreeing to R ensures you will never get to experiences those in your M. The lack of respect in the bedrooom will continue. I mean it is hard not to assume that AP was "worth the effort," while you are being told you are not. The doubts this creates are beyond crippling emotionally for a BS.

Second your W has been pushing and driving this before you were made aware and is thus making most decisions in the hope that you don't have time to think. I mean she looked around and figured out she had a better deal at home, right? Is she afraid you will look and find someone that treats you better that she ever did?

Yet you are expected to work through all of these things if you want R, right?

What amends could she ever make to make you feel better about accepting her demands? Notice I said demands, not requests.

This doesn't sound like R to me. It sounds like your WW is continuing her selfish waywardness in R by creating the outcome she wants while using psycho-babble to keep status quo on what she did not want to change.

In order for R to work a new M has to be rebuilt. It requires compromise on both sides and everything needs to be open for discussion. Including the bedroom.

Just my .02, but your W isn't intetested in an R that works for both of you. She wants the R her IC and her envisioned before they even included you in the picture.

I think you should speak with an attorney and stop MC. Use that time to get your own IC. Hopefully you can figure out what you really want without your W trying to control the outcome.

Best of luck. At the end of the day it is your life and only you have to live in it. Be kind to yourself.

So as background, WW and I are currently in MC following her disclosure of an 18 month PA with (what I thought was) a mutual acquaintance of ours in August 2020 during the COVID lockdowns. Unlike many of you on here, I was completely oblivious to what was going on. I did not suspect a thing, even though looking back, the signs were all there.

I think there are a lot of us here in the same boat regarding being oblivious about the affair. I had absolutely no idea. WH and I spent almost all our time outside of work together, would communicate throughout the day, and recently took an amazing international trip to celebrate our 15th wedding anniversary. I come to find out he's been having an affair for over a year.

Like you said, I can see signs in retrospect, but did not see them at the time.

Our situations are different in that my WH does not appear to have any interest in R, but I wanted to let you know you aren't alone in being unsuspecting.

I as well have a big issue with your WWs comment that you won. Among other things, I think this comment needs to be drilled down a lot further. To me, it’s a comment that emasculates and part of wayward narcissistic thinking. It’s a hurtful comment. What happens when in the next circumstance you don’t win against the competition?

"You won" is some bullshit. But I could chalk that up to naive optimism and a bid for connection.

The sex part of this equation would be, for me, a total dealbreaker. But I’m not you. You have to figure out whether it is a dealbreaker for you. If it is a dealbreaker for you, so be it, act decisively. There likely won’t be a single betrayed husband on this forum that wouldn’t understand and support that decision.

Edited to add: I would not attempt to circumvent or renegotiate your WW sexual boundaries. Your choices are accept them and attempt reconciliation or do not accept them and get out of the marriage.

[This message edited by Wiseoldfool at 5:48 PM, Monday, March 13th]

By the way, the "you won" thing, that there is one of the more tone-deaf things I've heard a WW say in this circumstance. More than anything, it reflects a lack of empathy. No WW who has empathy for her BH's feelings in this circumstance would ever arrogate the conceit that he feels in any way like a "winner" under these facts. Mostly, he feels like a "Plan B", a chump, a cuckold. What is she doing to (a) wrap her mind around that, and (b) address it?

The lack of empathy, that impugns the notion that she has been a "model wayward".

No only were you in a contest you didn't know about, the AP got the champagne. You're getting the day old beer. Now, she's telling you that she has no champagne to give, that she didn't enjoy giving champagne to the AP. Yet the fact remains. There you sit, offered a glass of PBR that's been sitting out all night, envisioning your WW with a come-hither smile filling the AP's flute with chilled Veuve as much as he desires.

[This message edited by Butforthegrace at 8:09 PM, Monday, March 13th]

There are many thoughtful posts here.

Let me get out some thoughts not covered yet. Like Bigger I am former LE and we are never satisfied until we feel we know the whole truth. I mention this because my team interviewed Ted Bundy before his execution. You may remember his confessions before he went out. Many of us saw this as a ploy to avoid ultimate responsibility. The main thing he did was describe the killings in the third person. It wasn’t I killed her it was she was killed. There was that final lack of recognition of responsibility.

Not that I am comparing your wife to a serial killer, but when I saw her referring to herself as if she was an unwilling observer it gave me the willies. On the one hand she confesses, on the other hand distances herself from the crime against the marriage and her family. This is an enormous manipulative tool and if she wants you to get through this it has to stop. It has to be crazy making for you. I’m surprised the mc allows it.

The sex thing. You don’t say what went down but I’m assuming chains and leather is not what we are talking about. If so, she needs a good psychiatrist. What I’m assuming is what many people see as garden variety acts between people that are comfortable with each other. If one person doesn’t want it they say so. And there is the rub. She and her AP had been at it for a long time. She could have said no. Instead she went with it. Not because it was disgusting but because she wanted to. So her story about being a different person and now she is so shamed has to ring hollow. Because it is a cheap excuse. If she really didn’t want to but did anyway that means she did it to keep her AP coming back for more. It is telling that she can’t admit that.

Which gets to something you don’t speak about. If it was for 18 months there had to have been hundreds of lies interwoven to keep the high she was on going and keep you in the dark. Being a model inmate now does nothing to atone for deception on that level. What is she doing about that?

Setting you up for a confession with a witness smacks of Jerry Springer and was just plain wrong. Once again she denied you of agency while manipulating the hoped for outcome. You have every reason to be upset even two years later.

Finally the you won thing. What this tells me is that after18 months she was weighing her options. Who should she be with? Who does she love? What is best for her? She finally decides to stick with what she knows. Good old reliable guy who breaks his ass to keep a roof over her head and makes good every day on his vows to the family. In her mind you won. She believes that. You get to keep doing what you always have. You are her choice so you should be happy. Now all you have to do is get back to normal and forget the long test drive. This needless to say speaks volumes of her sense of entitlement.

So you have every right to be upset and ambivalent. Read some of the stories here about similar situations. The question as one earlier poster pointed out is about what you want. Maybe better to ask is what you need for you. Do you want to keep on like this? Maybe you could call out some of the above to see if she gets her head together.

The reality is that she denied you free will for a long time. The good news is you still have it.

On your first issue, you trusted your wife. She completely blindsided you and made you feel like a fool. What you're probably feeling is the loss of blind trust in her. There will always be a little part of you that wonders now.

Your second issue I feel I understand where you're coming from. My WW and I had a similar problem, although it wasn't sex related. It was something she'd always refused to do with me, but did it frequently with her APs. It always felt to me like it was something she was holding onto that was just between them, and I wasn't worthy of it. Just like you, I couldn't let it go. I finally told her that I didn't feel I could remain with her if she couldn't do it with me, when she enthusiastically did it with others behind my back. She finally did it with me a few times, and it's definitely helped. I no longer feel like it it's something she held special and I wasn't good enough for, it also gave me a better glimpse into who she was during her affairs.

Sorry, AN!

I couldn't or wouldn't do R. I guess I have never loved anyone enough to even give forgiveness for an EA let alone a PA. I would have left during the on DD session.

Good luck to you.