SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Thank you for accepting me into this forum. I'm hurting and don't know where else to turn. Here's the concise version. Found out my wife had an affair beginning weeks before our wedding and continuing for at least 12 years—that I know. We are high school sweethearts—met when she was 15 and I was 17. I have never been with anyone other than my wife, and I'm beyond devastated. More than the pain of her infidelity is her lies. She has never told the same story since I learned of the affair and stumbled upon a love letter from her boyfriend. I have read everything I can find about the dangers of trickle truth, and I'm living proof. I'm in love with a liar and have no desire to live without her. I've been under psychiatric care with two different doctors for decades, expressing the same feelings week after week. It was in the last session that my doctor referred to her as a con artist. I have sent my wife every article I could find about the importance of truth and transparency in order to overcome. Nothing stops the changing narratives. I'm beyond broken and need the help of others who have walked in my shoes. Thank you for reading.

Welcome to SI and I'm sorry that infidelity is part of your life. In the JFO (Just Found Out) forum, there are some posts that are pinned to the top that we encourage new members to read. The Healing Library is at the top of the site and has a lot of great resources. In the ICR (I Can Relate) forum, there may be some threads that you find helpful.

If you can, IC (individual counseling) with a betrayal-informed therapist may be helpful. Infidelity is betrayal trauma, and this is certainly traumatic.

Your WW (Wayward Wife) should read How to Help Your Spouse Heal From Your Affair by Linda MacDonald. Another good book is Not Just Friends by Dr. Shirley Glass. She should be in IC to work on becoming a safe partner.

Please see your doctor and get tested for STDs/STIs. There are some nasty things out there that can turn into cancer.

Is the AP (affair partner) married? If so, please inform the OBS (other betrayed spouse) as they should have the necessary knowledge to make informed decisions for their life.

Thank you for your gracious response. In an effort to be concise and being new to this group, I left out significant information. I found out about my wife's infidelity in 2000. Today, I'm 62. I have tried to accept the fact that she was unfaithful, but that pales in comparison to the regular doses of lies I get. She has literally never told me the same story twice about every aspect of her secret life. I have asked her if she is aware that she is lying, and she says, "I don't know." I need to hear from others who have experienced what I have—being defrauded by their spouse for decades. Thank you so much for caring.

There's a lot of good articles and posts here to help you make the case for ending Trickle Truth. One is Joseph's Letter https://www.survivinginfidelity.com/documents/library/articles/discovery/joseph-letter/. Consider taking it and tailoring it to your situation.

Friend, you definatly need a skilled professional to help you navigate this. Ask God to guide you, only He know the best path. That said, make sure they are trauma informed. Please understand you are being abused. Your first destination should be safety for you.

We often say that it isn't always the A that causes the decision to D (divorce), it's the behavior and continued lies by the WS (wayward spouse) that causes the BS (betrayed spouse) to decide on D.

My XWH (wayward ex-husband) has been diagnosed with NPD (narcissistic personality disorder). I don't know if he told me the truth about anything. He certainly lied about his behavior around the A (affair) and I'll never know all of the details. He spent hours on the phone with her and I'm sure he can't remember all of the details.

As part of my healing process, I had decided that it didn't matter if I didn't have all of the details. I knew that he cheated and the AP. He also didn't do the work to become a safe partner, and I made the decision to D on dday2.

She is a con artist, or as we say a major gaslighter, in that she allowed you to believe something other than the truth. You may wish to do an internet search on infidelity as abuse. You should also look up health issues related to infidelity. Some people will have what's called broken heart syndrome, others will have lesions on their brain similar to those who have had a stroke, and many others.

The thing is though - you can't control her or what she says or does. You can only control you.

Thank you so much for sharing with me. Your words, "The thing is, though - you can't control her or what she says or does. You can only control you," are truly resonating with me, and I'm trying to take care of myself for the first time. I yearn to learn from others who have lived with liars and learn how to cope with them.

Reconciliation is impossible if you believe your wife is not being totally honest. Impossible.

Until you can believe that you know the truth about everything your mind will always wonder and it will be a roadblock in your relationship forever

At this point your wife is making it impossible for your relationship to continue. As hard as it is to accept your wife may not want to continue the relationship and is waiting for you to end it so she can falsely tell herself that YOU are the reason for the divorce

After 25 years of carrying this burden, it must be very heavy indeed. As you're finding out, you're the only one who can change that. The good part is that you are stronger than you think. You really can lay the burden down.

At 62, the Social Security Administration says you have a median life expectancy of almost 20 years. In all probability, your life is far from over.

You say you've worked with 2 psychiatrists for years. Have they helped? Psychiatrists usually use meds nowadays. What else do they do for you? What do they do to get you off the treadmill of expressing the same feelings week after week?

I yearn to learn from others who have lived with liars and learn how to cope with them.

I'm not sure there is a *healthy* way to live with and cope with a liar. You are coping - you're here, posting, and you've tried to work on yourself. But coping is not the same as contentment or happiness.

You say you're in love with her and don't want to leave her as if these are things about you that are out of your control. Love (to me) is not just a feeling, it's an action and a choice we make. We can have feelings of love about a person and still choose to walk away from them. This is what spouse and family members of addicts or abusers often do to protect themselves. Just because you love someone doesn't mean that you can have a healthy relationship with them.

A lot of people here will tell you that an unremorseful spouse is not a good candidate for reconciliation after an affair. Your wife did immense damage to you, and if you still feel (25 years later) that she's a con artist, that means you don't have a sense of security and safety in your marriage. Your poor amygdala (in your brain) is on a state of constant alert, and that is pyschologically and physically exhausting.

Ultimately, you have to make a decision for yourself, either accept her for what she is, or remove yourself from her influence.

Thank you all so very much for caring and for taking the time to respond. This afternoon, I left home for "self-care." When I returned, I was met with, "I'M DONE! IF I HAD SOMEWHERE TO GO I WOULD." Was she yelling? Absolutely. I remained calm and asked her a simple question, Why in the last two weeks have you told me two completely different stories of the first time you were with Dennis? I mean, different time of day, different place, different sexual happenings, etc. My biggest problem is her current dishonesty and unwillingness to tell me the truth, even after 35 years. Ultimately, I backed down and said that I would no longer discuss the past with her or my feelings about her dishonesty. Was this the best way to handle this? Absolutely not, but this is not just my wife, but my closest friend since I was 17—the only woman I have ever been with. And, the fear of losing her always trumps rational or logical thinking. I will begin to explore with my psychiatrist why I lack the confidence to stand up to her gaslighting. I'm not the one who was unfaithful, nor was I the one who repeatedly lied. I'm just a weak man who lacks the confidence to say, I can't live with this pain. I truly love my wife more than ever. And with that, I set myself up to be repeatedly harmed. Thank you for giving me this opportunity to share with others who have walked a similar path and truly care.

You hit the nail on the head. FEAR.

You are letting your fear of losing your wife rule your life.

I will share that on dday1 of my H’s affair I was afraid if D. Funny how 10 days after dday1 he says he wanted a D. Yes I was blindsided and in absolute fear.

But on dday2 which was 6 months later I was a very different person. That day I learned that while I thought we were committed to Reconciliation he was still cheating. And I snapped.

He thought he was still in control and dictating what was happening. In 30 seconds I told him I was D him and the marriage was over. I was done.

I did the very hard 180 and didn’t speak to him unless kids were around. I stopped doing anything for him and told him to get the hell out. He refused to leave but I forced him to.

We have happily reconciled and my H knows I take no crap. No lies or anything less than the truth. No shady behavior.

Did I want a D? No. But I’d rather D than be living with a cheater who lies and cheats and disrespects me.

I think your wife has a lying problem and it is her "go to" response. That can be driven by fear. She tells you what she thinks you want to hear (even though it’s the opposite of what is needed).

Does she lie a out everything or just the affair? Understanding her behavior may give you a clue. And if she does it as a pattern then she’s not just lying to you. Maybe that might help you.

Thank you for your experience. Respectfully, this is a different situation. The "affair" was in the late 1980s through 2000. I don't believe in divorce. I married the person I love, and I continue to love her, in sickness and in health. I see this as a sickness—an inability or unwillingness to be honest with me about what happened. Fast forward, we're in a new, magnificent dream home, and I thought it was safe to address what has been haunting me for years. This only opened the door to changing stories, lying, and gaslighting. I'm going to back off—asking for the truth or discussing her ugly past and try to enjoy the moments we have today—as she has asked. Only time will tell whether I can live this way. I place great emphasis on living a life of truth, and I know I'm suppressing my needs. However, I'm willing to put the past behind us and see if, by focusing on the present, we can live in peace and hopefully build a new chapter in our lives. I feel so broken and so depressed. I have much to discuss with my psychiatrist and will be seeing him more often. Thank you, my friends.

Low tide,
First and foremost, find a good IC who can help you to recognize the value you have inside of you. This is a her problem, not a you problem. There is nothing you can do to coerce, or force her to do the work. She has to want to do this for herself. Find your inner strength. It’s there. Once you see and feel it, it will become very empowering, almost addictive. It will grow inside of you. You will demand respect from others and you will not cave to others demands. Ask yourself if you feel safe with your wife. If you were anything like me, you love her and want to give her another chance, but don’t overlook who she is. Take an honest look at your relationship over the years. Has it been a partnership or have you mostly catered to her demands. That’s what I’ve learned, I was codependent and caved to her demands. They were small demands, but it chips away at your self worth. I knew my WW would never change, so I had to make a change. I’m 58 and foresee a great future moving ahead. I could not stay with someone who doesn’t have the best interest of my heart in mind. Who had an uncommunicative, non cohesive relationship that I’ve only truly discovered once I took value in my own self worth. Dig into yourself, evaluate what you need and what you feel you can truly expect from your wife. Don’t let the total number of years together control the choices you have. Again, "Do you feel safe with her?" Your honest answer should tell you what you do next. Good luck my friend. We are here to support you.

Your response really touched me. Thank you so much. I realize that I need to take better care of myself. Saying repeatedly, "I want to die ... I want to die ... I want to die" is certainly not productive. I'm looking for a way to stop the emotional pain. Now that talking about dishonesty or her infidelity is no longer an option, I don't know whether it will be a good thing or a bad thing. Maybe she's right. Rehashing events from 35 years ago should not be consuming us today. However, what's most concerning to me is that she blatantly lies today—leaving me feeling vulnerable and broken. This forum has become a lifesaver for me. I needed a safe place to be with people who understand, and I'm impressed and appreciative of what I'm learning. Thank you from the bottom of my broken heart.

LowTide, you are getting extremely valuable information from people here who have and are walking in your shoes, maybe better advice than you are getting from your psychiatrists.

I think that many of the things you have said in your initial post and especially in your replies have raise red flags for many of us who share in this terrible club of betrades. One that stood out for me is that you "don’t believe in divorce". I especially want to focus on that idea for I can identify with that belief for I once staunchly held it myself. That belief, though sounds good, put me into a "no options, helpless state of being" a survival only life. I was caught, left in an impossible no place to thrive. Though possibly noble it was not healthy for me and frankly not for my wayward wife. It wasn’t until I reevaluated the idea of "no divorce option" that my wife realized she better level up. She's not been perfect, nor have I been, but she has put in great efforts. I learned that, for me anyway, the perceived safety of sticking to dogmas was more damaging than taking the risk of freeing oneself knowing there are always options.

If you don’t mind, I’m going to ask you 2 questions: Why should your wife do the work if there is no chance of loss if she chooses not to? I don’t mean to sound cruel or harsh but changing oneself is tough stuff, so honestly, why walk on painful hot coals of self-change for yourself and your spouse when you can just walk all over them, it is easier and far less painful?

I’m 72 and have been in the process of reconciliation with my wife for over 3 decades so I didn’t ask the questions above to suggest that divorce is your only, or even your best option, just that you might want to rethink the dogma that divorce is not a legitimate option for a betrayed.

To piggy back on Asterisk, I think you've locked yourself into a holding pattern of limbo with your WW because there are no consequences for her actions.

I played the pick me dance for about a week after d day, and during that time my WW basically held all of the cards. I realized what I was doing wasn't working, and she wasn't going to change as long as I continued doing it. I decided that I couldn't live with her the way things were going and resigned myself to the reality that our marriage was over. I changed my attitude. I started calling lawyers and real estate agents, and when she realized I was serious the dynamic completely changed. Suddenly the ball was in my court and I was in a position to demand the full truth and transparency. To set boundaries and have them respected. It completely changed everything. She broke down, told me everything, blocked her AP and went full NC. This happened almost overnight.

We're currently working on R and she's as close to a model of a repentant, remorseful wife as one could hope for in a R situation now. I'm not saying that will definitely be the case with your WW, but the way things are going for you right now sounds like no way to live. I know it's hard, especially when you have so much invested in a long term relationship like that. I was married for 27 years when my world came tumbling down around me. I get it, but I can feel your pain and anguish through your posts. I think you've got to put your foot down.

Here's the thing tho, if you do go that route, you have to be prepared to follow through with it. You don't want to impose consequences then back out if you don't get the results you're hoping for. That will just make things worse because then she'll know you won't follow through and you'll be right back in the same boat again. So don't enter into it lightly, and be prepared to follow through if it comes down to it.

Or you could do nothing, never get the truth (tho we rarely ever get the FULL truth anyway), and continue to wallow in misery. I hope I'm not coming across as harsh because I really do feel for you. I know what you're going through and it sucks. The last thing I want to do is kick a guy when he's down. I hear you, and I care. I really do, my friend.

If divorce is truly not an option for you, at least go through the healing library and start reading up on the 180. It's a tool that not only gives you back some semblance of control, but can also help you detach and start working on yourself. The one thing you can control.

Asterisk and Pogre. Thank you so much for sharing with me. Honestly, my first reaction is how bright people are in this forum. It also helps knowing that you're not coming from the Ivy League education or the ivory tower of professional expertise, but from the trenches of traumatic stress. The comment that was proffered along the lines of, if she doesn't see that you're considering divorce, why should she do the work or change was suggested recently by my psychiatrist, too. The reality is that I married my high school sweetheart for good and for bad, in sickness and in health. This is sickness. I will not abandon her and will remain hopeful that with time, she will realize that my feelings matter. In the meantime, I welcome your ideas on how to cope while weathering the storm. Once again, thank you so very much for caring enough to be there for a total stranger.

I have this theory that the BEST thing a marriage can get is the understanding that it’s a very delicate institution based solely on the mutual will of both participants. Once you realize how delicate that really is you start treating it with the care it deserves. By stating you won’t divorce... you are IMHO showing a total disregard for the marriage because you aren’t treating it with the delicacy and sensitivity it deserves. Your are treating it like a massive steel ball rather than a delicate egg.

I’m going to suggest one approach:
She states she would leave if she had somewhere to go.
Why not explore that option?
Why not ask her "Honey. I don’t want to hold you here against your will. We can rent a room for you for 30 days, set a budget and arrange things so you can be free of me for some time. During that time we can look at what separation and possibly divorce would look like, or you could explore if you are willing to meet my needs about the truth of what happened. People separate or divorce all the time, and financially it’s a challenge but we can cope with it."

It’s not what you want, but it’s what she claims she wants. Surely if you are true about your love to her you want what she wants...
See how that goes.

Here are a couple of links you can check out that describe what the 180 is and how you could try to implement it.

Article:

https://www.survivinginfidelity.com/documents/library/articles/discovery/understanding-the-180/

FAQ:

https://www.survivinginfidelity.com/documents/library/faq/bs/?FAQ=11

The simplified 180.

https://www.survivinginfidelity.com/documents/library/articles/discovery/the-simplified-180/