SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Hello again. Thanks for your responses. You all are right. I'm being too nice and already gearing my way towards rug sweeping. My resolve waivered when she cried, begged, pleaded and pouted all day after I confronted her.

I will read/re-read the resources all of you guys suggested. I checked her phone daily and there have been no new texts from this guy. She also has not changed her password on her phone or deleted the incriminating text chain. I told her that would only further my suspicion. I'm not naive enough to believe she doesn't have other ways of communicating.

I will still contact a divorce attorney and notify the OBS. I have digital copies of Cheating In A Nutshell and A reference not approved by site. I will finish those two. I'm used to being strict in my job as a LEO but I'm a big wimp when it comes to my WW it seems. Thanks again.

[This message edited by SI Staff at 10:31 AM, Friday, July 4th]

Maybe wait until the anger phase kicks in. Then you won’t be so nice.

I gave my lawyer strict instructions to protect me from my inck8nation to be nice. He did.

Hunter

What is their work-relationship?
Same building, same department, is he her boss or coworker...
It’s not clear when and how this affair started. You had suspicions six years ago, but found no concrete evidence. Keep in mind that the level of evidence only needs to convince YOU. I went through your older posts and I think I too would have reached the same conclusion as you did six years ago. But with the evidence you have now, I suspect this affair might have been starting (maybe not consummated) back then, and might have been going on for some years. But... that’s just backed by intuition and no real evidence.
You a LEO? Well... it’s like if you are patrolling an affluent neighborhood late at night and meet a tradesman van. You would probably note the logo or number, even more so if there has been some crime or burglaries in that area recently. After all – what is Joe’s Plumbing doing there at 4 AM? Not enough to stop the van, but enough so that if a burglary is reported next morning, you go check with Joe...

I think it’s highly unlikely that an affair that has been going on for this time, and is so blatant in it’s sexting, will end just like that. I also find it highly unlikely that she would find it enough to offer one-sided sexual gratification. This is not four of five rounds in his car during lunch...

I can guestimate the present situation:
You call out her affair. She promises change and that the affair is over. The first opportunity she gets they communicate. They decide to lay low. The OM first, second and third priority is that his wife doesn’t learn about this. If he is her supervisor or superior at work, his next priority is to minimize damage at work. Your WW first priority is to prevent divorce (note – not to save her marriage, but to prevent divorce). Her second priority is to save face, and her third is to protect OM.
So when they decide to lay low, it’s basically a commitment that the affair (as a physical one) is over.
That commitment – it’s like she wakes up with a terrible hangover and decides never to drink again. Might avoid the Chablis all week, and maybe not have a gin-and-tonic next weekend. But eventually she might be sharing her story of the hangover with her best friend while downing her second cocktail.
There is an off chance the affair is over. There is a greater chance that once they feel safe, it resumes. Might be dormant for a week, a month, maybe half a year... But odds are higher that it resumes that it being over. Probably when they have the chance he might ask if things are OK at home, and then they start talking...

What can be done to lower those odds?
a)Change of jobs.
b)A strict leash on OM – for example if he is superior to her at work then his boss will give him a stern warning about having affairs with staff (or even fire him).
c)Let all stakeholders know. If his wife is monitoring him too he will be more reluctant to restart the affair.
d)Controlled and strategic exposure. The more the correct people know, the less opportunity she has to cheat.

Of course, if you decide to divorce your strategy might be different. Then you want her to keep her job (for income) and might use the fear of exposure to get her to accept an uncontested divorce.

Hello again. A few things have happened since my last post. I talked to one divorce attorney. He told a few of things I already knew but I still listened. He assured me that I probably wouldn't get abused on spousal support even though I make twice as much as her. He also said that I shouldn't try to hide my assets before my divorce (a divorced friend of mine urged me to do that). He couldn't give me an in-depth analysis yet at this was just the first free telephone consultation.
I also made an appointment with a marital therapist. It will be a telephone session. We'll see how much accountability my wife takes. I know many here are skeptical of marital counseling this early in the process.
My wife told me that she told the other guy that they are done and that I know. I checked her phone everyday and I don't see any new messages. We'll see.... She acts remorseful and cries when I press her on issues.
I now have the other betrayed spouses number and I will send her the screen shots. I just have to get them ready. When I send the screen shots should I attempt to edit out the pictures of their private parts? I'm thinking I should so that I can't be called malicious by my wife/divorce attorney. I don't want to be perceived as revenge seeking. I just want her to know and be armed with the almost 500 screenshots I have of their text exchange. Thanks.

Go ahead. Let her see those stinky bits. After all, they weren't ashamed. Why should you be?

Is there a reason you seem to ignore my questions like the one about their work-relationship?

As a LEO you should be aware that sending unsolicited sexual content and/or sharing sexual content that was intended for private and personal use can be a felony and/or can give both your wife and OM grounds to sue you. So, no – do not send the OW any content unless she asks, and even then either offer to show her in person, or send heavily edited photo’s.

What you do is send the OMW something like:

"I think it important for that you have this information so you can decide how to progress and for your health, but your husband (name here) and my wife (name here) are having a sexual affair. They are interacting at work and I have texts and pictures with sexual content shared between them, as well as my wife’s confession. There is no doubt that this is a full-on sexual affair. If you need further information or proof, you can contact me (place how to contact) and I can share more information."

Lookup revenge porn laws in your state.

[This message edited by SI Staff at 10:42 AM, Thursday, July 10th]

Hi Bigger. To answer you question about their work relationship: He is in charge of another department. He is not a direct boss. My wife is a firstline supervisor of manufacturing in their company's department. She has a completely different chain of command (for lack of a better word).
Thanks for stressing the laws on revenge porn. Yes I'm a LEO but I'm at the federal level. My enforcement authority only comes from a few federal statutes. I have almost no knowledge of state/local laws. However, I have learned about them through this site. I will not send those screen shots unless they are heavily edited. I will use your script (modified) and go from there. Thanks again.

A few suggestions for you:

Decide how much of the truth you need to know if you were to even consider reconciling. Right now, your WS is only telling you what you can prove. Really, she is lying by omission. When confronted, she seems to spin out and go into an emotional breakdown and not reply. Write down your questions and give them to her and ask for as detailed a timeline as you need. Be specific. Tell her to work on it as soon as possible, but when she is alone and can calm herself. See what her actions are from that point.

Continue to meet with attorneys and tell her that you are doing so. You can tell her it's just in case or to gather information and invite her to do the same. You have considered settlements and what you will accept. Ask her to prepare a spreadsheet of any marital assets that should be included in the divorce, her estimated value, and how she expects to divide them. Ask her to write down any other expectations for a divorce (child custody and how you will handle child support, who gets the properties, etc.) You could tell her an attorney suggested this.

I would also let her know you expect her to suggest a settlement generous to you if it comes to that, because she violated the marriage agreement. Don't give her your information. Don't accept her saying, "Whatever you decide" or something similar. She should be confronting the prospect of a divorce just like you are/have and doing the work herself. It will make her face reality, and it will say something of her state of remorse if she suggests that she should have the properties in her home country without any concessions to you or that she should get portions of your retirement from before you were married. See what she comes up with and send it back to be revised multiple times if she hasn't included everything.

You're grappling with a truly difficult situation, and it's completely understandable that your head would be a mess right now. Many people have been in similar positions. The most important thing is to figure out what you truly want and what you believe you're capable of living with.

If you don't think you can live with this kind of sustained physical betrayal – and frankly, no one would blame you for feeling that way – then rushing into therapy, especially at this early stage, might not be the best path for you.

You mentioned having a "weak spot" for your wife and that she has the ability to manipulate you. Imagine how much that manipulation could intensify if she faces losing her "cushy life." She could become an absolute nightmare.

I strongly recommend not giving her that chance to manipulate you further right now. If it's at all possible, separate physically for a month. Use this time to seriously consider if reconciliation is something you truly want, are genuinely capable of achieving, and believe won't lead you into festering self-hatred.

Once you have a clearer picture of what you want for yourself, you can then make a concrete plan to achieve that outcome. Slow things down, decide what you want, and then move forward with determination.

From my perspective, I also think people who've witnessed their spouse in th act. Via walking in or in your case, via the video are at a massive disadvantage when it comes to reconciling. the image of her lips on another man would make me want to be as far away from her as possible. I personally couldn't imagine kissing that mouth again. You may feel differently about that specific aspect, but it's crucial to acknowledge your own feelings and boundaries.

The point of my post above is not that you will decide to reconcile and that these items will help you to that goal. They might help though if it is your goal. The point is that if your WS is emotional and shocked as she seems, you are at this time relatively in a position of power to get things you probably want. Doing everything in writing also keeps you from having to deal with her emotions and keeps it documented.

The vast majority of BS want the truth. They painfully want the truth for a long time. You might persuade your WS to give you more of it. Or not, but at least you will know she is not willing to do that.

In a settlement, your WS may be willing to give you right now what is fair, but you can not legally prove you are owed, out of guilt. That will probably be more difficult to achieve in the future if she isn't remorseful. That would be things like the overseas properties or other prior money you have blended into marital accounts or assets. At the very least, she will have to acknowledge that you have contributed those things to the marriage.

Exposing the affair is not about revenge and should never be about revenge.
Therefore, seldom any need to use explicitly sexual material.
There are two main reasons to expose, and one or both might apply.
There is the strategic reason where repeated experience on this site strongly supports that once the OP spouse knows the affair dies. I venture that in 9/10 instances a man will throw their AP under the bus in order to save their marriage. I guess the ratio is lower for women. Once could offer suggestions as to why, but with a very big warning that generalizations on behavior are always dubious. I think that for men infidelity is more about validation through power and sex, while for women it’s validation through emotions and power. But that’s my probably-not-correct suggestion.
Then there is the moral reason. The OPS deserves to know.

Frankly – If you were 100% committed to divorce I would suggest you wait with telling OM wife. Get the divorce over with in the least confrontational manner. However if you have any doubt then I suggest you expose to the OMW to get the benefits of the first reason to expose I mentioned.

How would you react if you got an anonymous message "Your wife is having an affair".
I guess you (or she) could shrug it off as a prank.

If you got something like
"I am Hunter. My wife Mrs Hunter and your husband Frank Sleazy are having a sexual affair. They met at work, and have been hooking up at work, in their vehicles (and what else you know), as well as sharing sexually explicit messages, pictures and recording of them having sex. I believe this has been going on for some years. I can prove beyond any doubt that this is true.
I believe you deserve to know about this, and if you need any further confirmation, you can contact me at xxx.xxx.
I would appreciate confirmation that you have received and read this message and will not disturb you again unless you initiate contact.

Then it would be harder to ignore.

Best-case is you get a response. Even if you don’t then she knows, and confronts OM.

Regarding their work. It’s very clear for most businesses that any personal relationship in direct supervisory chain is frowned upon. As a general rule, it’s heavily frowned upon that any manager has an affair with ANY of the other employees, irrespective of their roles.

One suggestion I made earlier on:
Even if you have some hope of reconciling, then now while you are in a position of power might be a good time to create a prenup. Consult your attorney about that.
As a rule they can’t be one-sided or too harsh, but right now you might be able to get a prenup that (for example) states that she get’s the assets in her country at a certain value and that counts against whatever assets you might have in the US. For example: If the foreign assets are valued at 100 and your US home at 300, then you should get 150 for the house and 50 of the foreign. With my idea she get’s 100 of the foreign and 100 the US assets.

I waited 5 months before reaching out to the OBS (the wife of my wife's AP) and I regret waiting that long. I should have reached out to her within the first month once my feet were back on the ground but in those beginning months I was afraid to do something that would anger my wife but once I gained some mental clarity and on the advice of people here I reached out.

I apologized for waiting so long but she was very thankful that I contacted her. She confronted her husband and he begged her not to leave, said he'll never do it again even though this is his second time, said he would go to individual counseling, Etc. (turns out he was lying but that's a story for another thread)

My advice is to tell right away because his wife has a right to know

Stay strong brother. You have an entitled woman there.

Hi there. I made up my mind to contact the OBS next week. I'll have a few days off without the wife. She definitely has a right to know. I told the wife I was going to.
The rest of the time the wife and I bounce between making appointments for therapists and divorce lawyers. She hasn't tried to talk to a lawyer (that I know.) I think I need an individual therapist so I can figure out why I'm not more outraged at her behavior.
She still acts remorseful and cries when I talk about leaving. I really wish she wouldn't have been so remorseful (or acted so well) and more resolute on being in love with/wanting to be with him. My anger would have given me the motivation to carry on with the divorce.
I'm stuck right now but I think she just wants to rug sweep. I have read enough stories/advice here to know that just brings more pain. Damn this is harder than I thought.

I told the wife I was going to.

Too late now, but doing so leaves opportunity for OM to spin a narrative you’re a nut case to his BW. Had you not told your wife, if anything came back about telling BW, you could have known 100% they’re still in contact.

I think I need an individual therapist so I can figure out why I'm not more outraged at her behavior.

Excellent move here. You’ve been disrespected in the worst way a wife can. You may have unresolved trauma causing your self-worth to be in the trash, and possibly think you deserve this from her. You don’t.

She still acts remorseful and cries when I talk about leaving. I really wish she wouldn't have been so remorseful (or acted so well)

Interesting you’re focusing on her "acting so well" now, immediately after discovering she acted in the worst possible way towards you. While of course I cannot know if her "contrition" is genuine, if she was truly remorseful, she’d be in a category of about 1% of adulterers to hit true remorse immediately. Nobody but her can know for a very long period of time, where she’s willing to crawl over broken glass for YEARS to demonstrate her true remorse. On the other hand, she has every reason to put on a show for you so as to not lose her lifestyle (and possibly residency/citizenship?).

My wife tried to downplay it, trying to make it seem like what she was doing was just innocent flirtation, was adamant she had not crossed any lines. When that did not end the conversation she switched to anger and then she switched to DARVO (deny attack reverse victim offender). In desperation she said and what secrets of yours do I not know about?

Huh? She was in full blown self-defense mode. During a subsequent conversation early on she said placing blame doesn't help, both of us are at fault. My head snapped sideways and I said I have zero blame for this. You are 100% at fault.

It took her months before she finally accepted full responsibility for her actions. She was cornered and desperate to find a way to deflect some of the blame onto me but at this point I had my head screwed on straight enough to not let that happen.

I agree it was a mistake informing your wife you were going to let the other wife know but what's done is done and I would have that conversation ASAP. I told my wife afterwards that I have reached out to the other wife and Par for course my wife got mad at me. She said what if this woman comes into my work and causes a scene and I lose my job to which I replied and if she had found out on her own through her husband's phone and came into your work how would that be any different? And then I said why why is it that now you are concerned about the ramifications of your affair? Where was that concern in the early days when you should have shut it down before it got to this point?

Once again she was cornered and desperate to find a way to make this look like I did something wrong but I simply told her I had no right to keep this to myself. His wife needs to know where she stands in her relationship

Please learn from my mistakes.

Affair #1 was a 4 year EA that my H refused to admit was going on. I KNEW it was going on from day 1. This girl was very obviously interested in my H.

When it ended it was rug swept and never mentioned again. I thought it was over and my H got the message I won’t tolerate this crap.

My biggest mistake.

Affair #2 started (15 years later) and was a typical midlife crisis affair. He was kicking me to the curb for the much younger OW.

I did everything possible to Reconcile. But when dday2 rolled around and I learned he had been cheating the entire time I was working my butt off to Reconcile, I snapped. I was done.

Suddenly dday2 my H wants to reconcile and he swears he’s all in. Except I wasn’t. My anger could have been explosive except my kids were home. Do I had to maintain calm. Very quietly I told him I had no other choice but to D. I did the hard 180 and kicked him to the curb.

He was begging to R. I couldn’t listen to it but I told him he could do whatever he wanted. But I wasn’t lifting a finger to help him R. He was on his own.

I knew in 21 days I was going to the D attorney.

Somehow in those 21 days he managed to make a dent in my feelings and I didn’t go to the lawyers. But I still did the hard 180.

End result we have been reconciled for 12 years. First 3 years were hard but if I had not held fast to expecting changes, we would not be where we are today.

I’d still be a doormat and he still would be taking advantage. He learned that "no" means no and I will not ever back down. We have a very different marriage now. He knows I will walk out the door in a heartbeat.

Because I stood up to him and refused to back down.

Don’t make the same mistakes I did. Don’t feel sorry for your wife. Don’t pity her. Don’t baby her.

She chose to cheat. She must own it fully or I dare say if you take her back, she will have no qualms about cheating again once the storm dies down.

[This message edited by The1stWife at 11:12 PM, Sunday, July 20th]

I have to chime in here as a victim of a work-place multi-year sexual affair, and your almost immediate willingness to change your mind from divorce to R based on your WS's initial reactions reminded me so much of my own situation back in the day I felt compelled to say a few things. And when I saw the following quote, I nodded in agreement and had to share:

If you think you have anything close to the truth or that she will be willing to give up a man she’s been infatuated with for 6 years, I have a bridge to sell you.

WH and AP worked together - knew each other for years - and the OBS also worked with them (and we used to socialize with OBS before he hooked up with AP all the time). I first caught WH back in...10.2017 (I think - and yeah, that's awesome, I really struggle now to remember what year it was so you can get beyond this nightmare) after the A had been going on for 4-5 months while I was contract working out of state. I confronted and said I wasn't coming back - WH begged and pleaded - said I was the only one blah blah blah - and he seemed genuine. So I did...and I did not tell the OBS even though I knew him.

Fast forward one year to the day (10.2018) and I catch him again - still talking to her - avoiding actual intercourse but the sexting and video masturbation was IMO worse and clearly more frequent. In hindsight, he was saying all the things I wanted to hear initially, but as the months wore on he became more irritated with my inability to "get over it" and although he would sit there listening to me, he rarely said anything except he was sorry and it wasn't still happening. As it turned out, the latter was clearly a lie and the former likely wasn't wholly truthful either. It just shut me up and kept me off his trail (for awhile). This time I blew it up - told his friends and the OBS...and the A stopped...this time for longer. But again he went back. I caught him the final time in 3.2019 (maybe 4 of 2019 - I don't remember that either) and we divorced and I moved away.

Now, we are still dating, long distance, and very casually - which is mostly on my terms as he would like me to move back but knows that likely will not happen anytime soon, if ever.

But, here's the kicker....AP and OBS divorced sometime in 2021 and now AP is married to another guy at the same workplace (AH, AP and former OBS all still work together although now AP has transferred to a different area due to some health problems she has). Her new spouse has heard the gossip and knows, at least some of what happened, and that my WH was her co-conspirator...

AP STILL contacted my WH from time to time as recently as spring of this year - he calls and doesn't leave messages (until recently when he sent her a message letting her know that if she was calling re work - which is possible but not likely (he cannot block her number due to the nature of his position) - to leave a message otherwise her continued calls would be reported to the workplace as sexual harassment - since then they have stopped). So now, EIGHT years after their A started, and FIVE years after their A ended she STILL wants to reach out to him. And this is germane to your situation as one of the things I did was had his phone forensically recovered and there were many messages in the beginning of her telling him that she was "infatuated" with him from the day she started working with him/the day they met back in 2012 or so, but she never acted on it because WH was with me. And that she had always wanted him but apparently settled for the OBS because WH wasn't available...blah blah blah. Is any of that true? I think so as she did try to contact WH a few times before the A in what I felt were inappropriate flirtations and attention-seeking behavior but WH blew it off.

So...the moral to all of this is to take whatever your WS is saying to you with a grain of salt - a shaker actually. I am one of the only people on this site I can think of who has a partner who still works with the AP and the A has ended...and clearly that is only because my WH wants no part of it now - not because of me but because he has worked on himself and she is married yet again - the aftermath of his A demolished his work life and the majority of his friendships. I think if he were to fish outside of our relationship (he is welcome to now anyway - he just has to let me know) then he would never do it at work again because of the sheer decimation of his personal and work life that still follows him to this day. It rarely works that way - and as my story indicates, it didn't for a long long time - he just kept going back.

So be cautious. I personally would insist on her leaving her current job. If she refuses and does not have a really really really good reason then that to me is a massive red flag that you should not ignore. Stay true to yourself and your values - and you will be okay.

[This message edited by ThisIsSoLonely at 11:11 PM, Tuesday, July 22nd]

If she were truly looking to rebuild she’d already (with your agreement and permission) be applying to other jobs away from him. She shouldn’t quit until she has an offer.

You are on the right path. She broke her vows and destroyed the marriage. Even if you reconcile someday, working with a lawyer is important so you know your rights and at the very least it might be important to put together a postnup even if you don’t end up divorcing