SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

he said he did love me in the beginning..but I doubt it was the same love as he has for OW...no matter how hard I tried in this marriage/relationship, he was rarely happy with me

That isn't love. That isn't what it's like to be really loved. We're talking being "in love" here, not the kind of love you feel for your Aunt Fern. My cheater said he loved me in the beginning, too, but it took hindsight to realize his words were empty. Friend zone love isn't the love one should feel when getting married. He knows the difference between the two, and said he "loved" you because it made your marriage and his children possible. If he'd bluntly stated, "I like you, find you just physically attractive enough to have sex with on occasion, and think you would probably be a good wife and mother, but I'm not in love with you", then you wouldn't have married him and he knew that. He lied.

I'm not saying this to be hurtful, but to wake you up to reality. A man who was never in love with you (a la Prince Charles when he married Diana) is not a good prospect for reconciliation. You could waste years of your life trying. It will never make him love you.

[This message edited by morningglory at 3:02 AM, Friday, May 6th]

I think both of them are basically telling me to find my happiness on my own. I undersatnd that. But it's just so hard since over the years, I have lost myself that I didn't even notice that.

yes, it’s hard. I am very independent, well educated, "badass" professional. And the post dday realization of just how much I’d "lost myself" over the years was one tough pill to swallow.

I say be proud that you are swallowing it and learning from it. Like breaking any "habit", it can take some time, and that’s ok. It’s hard, and that’s ok too. Giving ourselves grace is IMHO, a really good lesson. And once you hit your "finding happiness on my own" stride, it can feel effing amazing!

Sendings hugs & strength.

Thank you all again for your support!

I saw WH tonight after I got home. Thursday is the only day I have to work in the office. So this is also his only day to come and work from home during the week. So he told me that he is planning to take our 4yo to his family mother's day gathering on Saturday. I was so surprised that he never mentioned it to me before today. He knows I like to plan ahead. He didn't even ask me if I wanted to join although he probably knows that I would mostly say no to that. He has been staying with his mom since he recovered from Covid a few weeks ago. I know his mom is the gossip type since she told her other sons' and their families about this cheating son and how he got us Covid. Well, it's her choice to share something so shameful among her family. I don't really care as long as my family other than my parents doesn't know about it. And it just seems like this whole time that WH has been living with her doesn't really help in any way. I even think she probably has been bitching me behind my back since she once said I was mentally sick because I should let it go by forgiving so her son could go back home. I haven't talked to her since I'm afraid I will end up fighting with her. She kept saying if I treated her son good, he wouldn't have cheated. Would she say the same if she had a daughter in my situation? So now, I don't know if it's her or WH's idea that I shouldn't be invited to this family gathering anymore. We are not even legally separated but they already exclude me out of their circle. Not that I care to go but it's the fact that I'm not invited...I told my parents about it. They agreed what they did doesn't seem appropriate. WH or his son should at least invite me and let me decide if I want to go or not. My parents told me that we could just claim to have the celebration on the same day too so my older kid wouldn't go. They even told me that I shouldn't let them bully or take advantage of me. But I told them that even I don't want to be the bigger person here, I don't want to treat that family nasty since the kids will suffer and be stuck in the middle. I don't want to end up fighting for custody with him eventually.

And at this point, there just seems nothing to do except getting a divorce since he is not trying and I obviously don't think I should do anything or beg for anything anymore. We were just not right for each other from the beginning. Again, I hate to share two young kids with him. But I need to show the least amount of respect for myself. I need to show my kids what is not right and the consequences after someone does something so bad.

100% agree.

He’s not trying to Reconcile. So you don’t have that option. Because if you did try you would be doing 200% of the work and he would be doing 0%.

He’s hiding behind his mommy.

At least you know exactly what you are dealing with.

And I agree not to fight with his family. You won’t win b/c you are blamed for all the faults in the marriage 🤪 (eye roll here). You can’t fight stupid.

It’s not even worth the effort.

I hope you have a very nice Mother’s Day.

Have you consulted a lawyer to see what divorce would look like for you? I know you're probably not quite at that point yet, but since he's already requesting to take the kids without telling you ahead of time, it's only a matter of time before he actually takes them without returning them. Don't mean to sound paranoid, but this is how nasty custody battles start.

[This message edited by Forks027 at 7:54 AM, Friday, May 6th]

He doesn't have the right to just announce he's taking the kids on Mothers' Day. That will leave you alone and lonely on a special day when you deserve attention, because you're their mother. Fyi, in custody situations, Mother's Day is typically reserved for the children to be with the mother (YOU). Just like Father's Day is typically reserved for the children to be with their father. You wouldn't tell him, "I'm planning to take the kids to my father's for Father's Day, while you sit at home alone."

A grandmother doesn't come before you, in terms of importance to your own children. You've been conditioned by him to put his mother first and accept that, because he puts his mother first. Stop accepting this treatment. Get a consultation with an attorney and begin the process of divorce, setting up custody and child support. A lawyer will help you with this process a lot, help you see what you and the children deserve and get it written down in a legal order.

[This message edited by morningglory at 11:06 AM, Friday, May 6th]

He is not going to take our daughter to meet his family on Mother's Day but Saturday instead. I believe his sis-in-laws' families are somewhat more important since it's always their say to pick the day to meet up in the past. I'm the only child in my family so I never said much and let them pick the day for most of the family/holiday gathering.

But you guys are right. He should have let me know in advance or once he finds out. He actually didn't bring it up until I told him that one of the neighborhood events was cancelled because of the weather that day. So he said then he would bring her to have gathering with his family. He obviously knows he can't take care of two young kids so our 1.5 wasn't mentioned. I really don't like the idea that I'm already excluded from this type of family events even we are not legally separated. Like my parents said, they should have invited me regardless the outcome.

I will find some lawyers and ask about my rights. I think it's really time to get ready...

I will find some lawyers and ask about my rights. I think it's really time to get ready...

You'll get through this, and probably also find a good man to love. Stay strong.

Don’t allow him to start playing Disney Dad. You know where it’s all fun & games and he’s the "good guy".

Visitation in the future is ALL kids together. No exceptions.

See a lawyer. See some ground rules now.

Honestly, if he wants to be the good dad, I would let him be. He is their father and he should be good to them even he wasn't able to treat me aka his wife well. When it comes to co-parenting, I've been trying so hard to put the kids first and put my bad feelings away. But it's just so hard since deep down, I really hate him for screwing up my life and lives of all the people (kids and parents) I care so much. I have been trying so hard to get the best version of myself in front of WH and the kids. I found some lawyer to get some consultation next week. I am honestly scared about what will happen. I don't want to fight nastily if I don't have to. WH is not someone I won't see for the rest of my life after divorce. Again, everything is out of control and I just don't have a lot of options as usual. I still hate this stage of my life. I don't know how or when I will stop all these bad feelings. I just have to keep busy...I really had never expected my life or my marriage would end up like this.

Honestly, if he wants to be the good dad, I would let him be. He is their father and he should be good to them even he wasn't able to treat me aka his wife well.

Yes, he'll have visitation so it's very much in your children's best interest that he be a good dad. However, that has nothing to do with you. You don't "let" him be a good dad. He just has to be one on his own merits, during his own scheduled visitation. You don't orchestrate it, allow it or not allow it. You should not be involved when he has the kids.

When it comes to co-parenting, I've been trying so hard to put the kids first and put my bad feelings away. But it's just so hard since deep down, I really hate him for screwing up my life and lives of all the people (kids and parents) I care so much.

Totally normal. You don't have to like him. At all. Just don't tell the kids you hate him. Don't lie and say that you like him, either. That would be gaslighting them and confusing them, because they can observe that it's not a good situation, as much as you'd try to conceal it. Just keep your darker feelings to yourself when with the kids and focus on the kids' well-being, not your feelings for your ex. Again, since you shouldn't be spending time with your ex when he's with the kids, this shouldn't be difficult.

I found some lawyer to get some consultation next week. I am honestly scared about what will happen. I don't want to fight nastily if I don't have to. WH is not someone I won't see for the rest of my life after divorce.

Follow all of your lawyer's advice to get everything that is in your best interest. You ex will NOT treat you better in the future if you settle for less than if you push for everything you can get in the settlement. Sensing weakness only makes a bully even more likely to bully a person. Your lawyer won't be intimidated by him, so all negotiations should be handled through the lawyer, and you shouldn't be speaking to your ex at all during the negotiations.

I don't want to end up fighting for custody with him eventually.

Custody won't be a big fight. Neither of you is claiming the other abuses the children, so there is not much to fight over. American custody court is simple: it is assumed that it is in the best interest of the child to be involved with both parents, so visitation will be divided between the two of you. Details about the visitation timeline and who decides what for the children can be negotiated. This is stressful but doesn't need to be ugly. Again, the lawyer needs to manage all negotiations here.

OP, notice how all of this advice hinges on you going no-contact with your ex and not trying to play pretend family as a group? You can't do the latter, and expect this to work out.

I'm curious about moving...what if I move to another state since I don't know how to be around WH anymore once we get a divorce. Even now it's difficult to see him every time. He just comes to play with the kids. He doesn't even read books or teach them. I really don't want the kids to be around him much although I know I can't take them away from him legally. So it seems like moving might be the only option to avoid him..unless he will follow us. But question - do I still have to follow the divorce laws based on the state I file so even after I move, I still have to follow those laws from my old state? I haven't talked to any lawyer but will ask that when I get a chance.

I'm curious about moving...what if I move to another state since I don't know how to be around WH anymore once we get a divorce. Even now it's difficult to see him every time. He just comes to play with the kids. He doesn't even read books or teach them. I really don't want the kids to be around him much although I know I can't take them away from him legally. So it seems like moving might be the only option to avoid him..unless he will follow us.

Sharing custody isn't a choice, it's a requirement.

He is your children's father. Unless he decides he doesn't want visitation, he has a legal right to visitation and will be in their lives at least until they turn 18. There is nothing you can do to change that now. Custody agreements spell out where the parents are allowed to live, and typically it is within a certain radius of where the children live at the time of the break up (in my case, each of us has to live within either the county that my son lived in at the time the agreement was made, or in a connecting county). If either parent moved out of that area, they would lose their right to regular visitation. I don't know what the rules are about moving right before getting a legal agreement, but be careful. If you look like you're trying to keep the children away from their father, that will look to the court like very bad parenting and you could have the children removed from you and given to your ex. Talk to a lawyer before doing anything rash.

Your ex being in your children's lives is a totally different thing from him being in YOUR life. I never interact with my ex, even though we share a child. The legal agreement spells out that the drop-off/pick-up happens in a certain public parking lot about halfway between our homes, and our son walks himself from car to car while we each stay inside our cars. No in-person contact at all, he has never been to my new home, and I virtually never speak to him on the phone, either. Our only communications are necessity communications about our son via email or text, and they're short and to the point. There is no arguing about anything (visitation times, who pays for what) because everything is covered in the legal agreement.

This is what I meant when I said you need to stop playing family with him. You need to go no-contact, which means that his time with the kids needs to be time he has them on his own, without you present. This way you don't have to deal with your ex, you can really start to emotionally detach from him, and you also get some child-free time to yourself. All of that will reduce your stress.

[This message edited by morningglory at 12:02 AM, Monday, May 9th]

Court orders usually make it hard, if not impossible, for one parent to leave the area with children. You need a lawyer to help you with this.
I agree with others. You can work out visitation by using friends as go betweens or a public park etc. There are always ways to gray rock people. Just don’t engage.

I will ask the lawyer when I talk to him/her. I'm still trying to come up with my list of questions here...I hate to see the family breaking up..

I've been wondering about you, Hi2super. Sometimes, things reach a point where there's not much happening to report, but sometimes a person stops posting because they're anxious that their chosen course of action doesn't really mesh with the advice they've had. So, what I wanted to say is that NOTHING you choose to do is "wrong", short of breaking the law, that is. We all just have to figure it out as we go. Sometimes our instincts lead to an acceptable outcome and sometimes they don't. Either way, ours are the boots on the ground and we are the one's who have to live with whatever we've decided. Believe me we've all been there.

Hope you're doing well. Feel free to update if you're up to it.

[This message edited by SI Staff at 5:12 PM, Tuesday, June 14th]