SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

On d-day, I asked a question about where we were going as a couple. My W then revealed her A. She said she wanted to R. She texted ow an NC text (on ow's b'day, BTW ). She stopped lying and started answering questions truthfully. She got us in to see her IC, who was great for me, so W's IC became our MC. She continued IC. My W just became honest. Her 'yes' meant yes; her 'no' meant no. She worked on owning and changing her shit. Looked like immediate remorse to me and to MC/IC.

Months later, W told me she didn't begin to feel remorse for 5 months. She said she didn't see her A as just another A for 5 months. She just knew on d-day that she had gotten herself into more shit than she could handle, and she decided she was going to change the behavior that got her to betray herself. She was honest about wanting to R, and she was surprised and sorry that I hurt, but R was really a way of saving herself.

(I'm happy with that, BTW. I wanted R only if she wanted R. I want her to be with me by choice, not because she feels she needs me or pities me. W still feels guilty about not throwing herself at my feet and healing me - but I believe there's no way she can make up for the losses she caused, and I believe I had to cure my own anger, grief, fear, and shame. I simply don't see how she could have done the work I had to do.)

Saying one wants R is one thing but behaving in a way that makes R happen is another. What the WS does is more important than what the WS says or believes. Eventually, what the WS says and does and believes have to align, but at first ... based on my experience as a BS and in life in general, what one does is not a guarantee, but it is the most important indicator that can be observed.

About punishment - I spent 2 years doing my best to come up with a punishment that would hurt my W without adding to my own pain, and I never succeeded. Every punishment I came up with would have added to my own pain. The only way out of that was to D, but I wanted to R.

[This message edited by SI Staff at 5:35 PM, Tuesday, December 28th]

It might be selfish of me to want to do this and juvenile but I don’t think I can live with myself if I don’t make her feel some pain. Cause all I feel is pain everyday and I think she thinks she got a free pass.

This feeling you have is not selfish. Virtually all BS have gone through this felling/thinking.

The thing is, there scales that were tipped by Infidelity, will not really balance out again. You can get close to the level it used to be, but it will always be a little bit 'off', as the initial weight of the A diminishes over time, but never seems to disappear. A tiny grain will always remain.

If you want to exact revenge/retribution, then prepare two graves, as you can lose yourself in the process. You can lose who you are, what you are.

You will have to learn to adapt to a new way of thinking, and not one of balancing things, but adapting/coping.

If your want to do something, it would be to gather evidence, and informing the OBS. They deserve to know.

It's really not about "fairness." At least it shouldn't be. The question is can you live this way? Should you? Do you want to? That is the choice. Accept this sad and sorry lot or say "No, this is not for me and this is not the example I want for my kids." It's not an easy choice. Ending the marriage is disruptive and involves some near-term uncertainty. I haven't read many stories from people who regret parting with this kind of abuse. I have read many from people who regret not parting with it or not parting with it sooner than they did. Those who have described the situation as abusive are exactly right. This has taken a toll on you and it is likely that toll will grow and worsen with time. It is damaging stuff. Damaging to through and through and to the core.

RacketRacoon :If you want to exact revenge/retribution, then prepare two graves, as you can lose yourself in the process. You can lose who you are, what you are.

I don't want to extract revenge per se but I want her to feel some pain. I was reading an article and posts in another forum and they recommended letting everyone one of our family and friends know what she is doing. This would force her to end the relationship which I still think it going on. I am not sure I feel comfortable with that as I think it will trigger her to go nuclear. Not that I know what she can do but if she is capable of multiple affairs she could make my life hell in a divorce.

A few other things I have learned over the holidays:
-people need to be careful with recording devices. In my state it is against the law to record someone without there consent. She knows I recorded her and that may come back do bite me if she wants it to. I planned to share the recording or at least a transcript but I now don't plan on doing that. It was worth it to get the proof I needed but just hope legally I won't have issues.

-I have a GPS on her car and it was able to track some suspicious activity the first month I installed it. The last suspicious location I saw was her parking on a side street for 10 min that was way out of the way between two locations she was going to. at first I thought it was to meet with current guy. The previous guy I know she was talking to is a police officer in the town she grew up in. This stop was a mile from the police station. My thoughts are she meet her PO and had him search it and found the GPS. She never told me but her knowing this would mean she could make sure she didn't take her car anywhere suspicious or maybe even remove it when she was at work and leave it there and then meet him and put it back on when she got back. And over the last few months since this she has made it a point to tell me exactly where she is going. I thought that was a good step but she wasn’t doing that up till that point. She may tell me she was going to store A and she would go there but might have stopped somewhere for 15 min in between and never told me that.

-She was also using Facebook Messenger as her main way to message him. As I said I thought it was probably over but a few things happened recently that made me think maybe it wasn’t. For some reason when she is on Facebook it doesn’t say active but it does say active when in messenger. I was able to test this on her phone. With that being the case I have seen her go active at times when I am not around…right when I leave the house…when she gets in her car…etc. I was able to look at her phone the other day and using the Screen Time that I don’t think she is aware of see that on New Years Eve she was on messenger for 21 min and had 24 notifications from the app. But her last message from friends on there was the previous Sunday. So the messages that went with those notifications had been deleted. The only reason to delete messages is because you don’t want them seen.

I realize I don’t need more proof. I can leave when I want. But it would make it a whole lot easier to leave to have proof she was still talking to him. This isn’t a smoking gun but where there is smoke there is fire.

I know it sounds like I am weak for not confronting or leaving and I would say that I am. I just need to find the courage to do what I need to do. And am having trouble finding that.

Respectfully Linc

Your fears and concerns are something we have seen before here on SI.
Why do you need to prove to anyone that your wife is cheating? The countries and states where infidelity plays any major (or any factor at all) in infidelity are few and far between. Why would you need to have a recording or a transcription of a recording? How do you think your wife can use the fact that you recorded her in any negative legal way for you if you yourself have never used that recording or transcription of the recording in any way?
Its enough that YOU believe she’s cheating. That’s all that’s needed. YOU need to be convinced.

It’s not as if you need to convince her that she’s cheating.

The ten minute stop a mile from the police station and her (possible) OM the police-officer searching her car… No… that’s fantasy. Didn’t happen. She stopped – maybe to do her make-up, maybe to make a call. That’s it. Don’t fall into the trap of seeing infidelity in everything.

The issue isn’t necessarily that she might be still talking to him. The issue is that you have good reason to suspect she cheated and she won’t come clean. Follow my script. If she insists nothing’s going on you get to see her social media and she takes a poly where you confirm she’s telling the truth.

Linc:

Not that I know what she can do but if she is capable of multiple affairs she could make my life hell in a divorce.

You are letting fear control your actions. You need to overcome this by visiting one or more divorce attorneys and lay it all out. If you’re smart about this, and act proactively, YOU will be the one in control and I bet you learn that you do not need to fear this woman.

You’re also terrified about breaking the law on a recording device. I say let her press charges. Let the judge & jury hear the recordings. Placing a recording device inside property you own is a gray area to say the least. There is zero chance you’ll be convicted. Again, you’re letting fear control your actions. Ask the divorce attorney about this as well!

PLEASE stand up for yourself. Your WW has made a mockery of your marriage and clearly has ZERO respect for you. The big question you need to answer now: do you respect yourself enough to overcome your fear by getting educated?

I was reading an article and posts in another forum and they recommended letting everyone one of our family and friends know what she is doing. This would force her to end the relationship which I still think it going on.

It will force her to respond, but you can't predict what that response will be.

I've never understood this advice. Forcing one's WS into a corner only tells the BS what the WS does when cornered. If exposure ends the A nd brings the WS back into the M, how does anyone know if the WS is truly contrite or merely executing plan B while waiting for another opportunity to cheat?

I am not sure I feel comfortable with that as I think it will trigger her to go nuclear.

Two things here:

1) You can't control her. You can control only yourself. The corollary is that your best bet is to figure out what you want and go for it, or at least go for the best you can get.

2) Fear can a catalyst for problem-solving. You fear her going nuclear. My reco is to not give in to your fear. Instead, consider how to respond if she does go nuclear. Catering to your fears may help someone survive, but it doesn't necessarily help anyone thrive.

There's a fear vs reality thread in the Divorce and Separation forum. I recommend checking it out.

[This message edited by SI Staff at 4:30 PM, Tuesday, January 4th]

Bigger, thanks for the info.

I know it is probably irrelevant and I bet a lot of people who go through this see infidelity where it may not be. But the two stores she were going to were 4 miles apart on the same road. She went 4 miles out of the way to stop for 10 min. Then back to the other store. No calls were made at that stop. Could she have been fixing her hair? Sure but the route she took didn't make sense. Again I realize I don't need anymore proof but it was not normal. And then after that she never did anything suspicious in her car again.

As for the recording I did speak to a divorce attorney and she said don't bring it up again and do not talk about it. It can't be used in anyway and technically you broke the law but recording a conversation between two people that didn't give you permission.

I agree not to expose everything to everyone. I want her to come clean because she wants to and not because I am forcing her too. If I did that it I agree it would be her ending more to save face then it would because she wants to work on the marriage.

I will check out the Divorce and Separation forum. Thanks.

our fears and concerns are something we have seen before here on SI.
Why do you need to prove to anyone that your wife is cheating? The countries and states where infidelity plays any major (or any factor at all) in infidelity are few and far between. Why would you need to have a recording or a transcription of a recording? How do you think your wife can use the fact that you recorded her in any negative legal way for you if you yourself have never used that recording or transcription of the recording in any way?
Its enough that YOU believe she’s cheating. That’s all that’s needed. YOU need to be convinced.

It’s not as if you need to convince her that she’s cheating.

Linc,

BIGGER put it very clearly. YOU are the judge, jury, and executioner in this situation. You are NOT in a court of law. You know she is cheating with multiple men in some way. You are getting too bogged down searching for details that you are not going to get without a polygraph test, which she is not likely to agree to take. Her behavior should be making it clear to you.
Either you continnue to tolerate it or you do something about it. There is not one here who can give you any advice that will solve the problem without YOU taking some action that she might not like.

you are in limbo as long as you want to be.

Linc

You are getting good advice from posters here and your lawyer.

Here’s the only thing I can add at this time.

Now that the holidays are over it’s time to start detaching. Yes your wife has been providing intimacy but as you know she is still lying. She will never be a safe spouse for you the way she is now.

Wayward spouses who truly want to rebuild after cheating will completely open themselves up. They will be completely honest and open themselves up to their betrayed spouse. They will "let go of the outcome" and do what is right.

Even if there is something the BS suspects and doesn’t have quite right about the affair they will admit that it’s still their fault and not the BS’s that their partner thinks that.

Honestly they will go to the greatest lengths to support the BS in their pain and healing.

You don’t have that. And even if she never admits it, she broke trust. Honestly if I found out my wife were even actively lusting after another man, to go to the extend yours did to have a burner phone and sit at a bar to watch the bartender and "cum in her pants" watching someone she has interacted with, It would take years of effort on her part for me to ever even begin to regain trust with her.

So what I recommend in the things you say to her is the following. Keep it simple and honest about what you need, with just a dash of passive aggressiveness.

"It’s clear to me that I am not enough for you. At the very least you are lusting after other men. I know, even though you won’t even give me the gift of honestly, that you have been inappropriate with them. You see them in a way you don’t see me.

Am am not interested in a marriage where my wife actively pines away for other men. And you deserve to be in a relationship with the person you really want.

So I’m letting you go. You got what you were looking for. I need to go work on healing from the heart that is breaking inside of me. It’s apparent you’ve not been interested in helping me with that process as that would take complete honestly and an empathy you really don’t have for what this has done for me.

If someday you figure out what you are truly looking for and it leads back to me, then give me a call and if I’m in a place in my life where I’m interested in what you have to say, I’ll consider talking again.

But until then, I’m not interested in discussing this any further. I’m glad only to discuss our kids and the finances of our ending the marriage.

Because rebuilding requires things you’re not able to give me. If I had done this to you, I would have provided a complete timeline of everything I did with these people, a polygraph to prove it, started with a therapist who specializes in cheating, and apologized not only to my partner but their whole family just as a start.

But I can tell you don’t have it in you. And I quite honestly I can feel it’s because you just don’t care about me in that way and what your choices have done to me.

So let’s move on and go our own ways, and focus on the children. I wish you good luck k finding what you are truly looking for “

That’s it Linc. Simple honest and the truth. Modify as you see fit. Then move on. Stop discussing. I know it’s easier said than done. But to tell you the truth, if the WS is not driving the recovery, then there is no recovery. Because if you have to pull it out of them if will never satisfy you.

Whether or not the audio "exists" (you heard what was on it.

If I were a cheating spouse that felt awful about what I did and desparately wanted to rebuild, I would sign a document immediately saying I approve of it and my spouse could use it for any purpose they deem necessary. I wouldn’t care. If I wanted to prove my empathy I would tell them they could share it if it would help them heal.

Shes no where close to doing that.

So until you hear and see THAT person come thru your door with a timeline that shows what they did and an offer to be Poly’d on it and asking you to attend their first session with their therapist…. Move on.

[This message edited by Stevesn at 6:47 PM, Tuesday, January 4th]

If you want to lay low and try to get an amicable divorce, listen to your lawyer.

If you want to destroy her affair, expose it to the sunlight. What happens after that is an absolute mystery. My fWW was upset when I told OBS, but ultimately, it worked out. OBS didn't contact me again after exposure (I expected her to be an ally in the fight against the A). I've exposed four affairs total (my fWW's included) and none of those M's have actually ended (yet? One of them is super shaky...). I expected at least one of the friendships to end, but none of them have.

I really do appreciate everyone's support and your stories and recommendations. I read through some of your stories and see how everyone worked through it.

I realize that I am in a holding pattern and until I make a decision to confront again and use the information everyone has provided to either work on a separation or reconciliation. And I realize that in my current state reconciliation isn't an option if she won't be honest about her history and her affairs.

I just keep posting, as you all know talking about it and working things out is beneficial. Everyone on here has been through similar situations and learning everyone's mistakes and how they got through it is hugely beneficial.

I know what I need to do....I just need to grow a set and do it. I keep delaying it and that is me being weak and not rushing into something that could end 20 years of a life I built. That being said I need to do something as where I am today just isn't sustainable.

Again I appreciate everyone's support. Hoping 2022 will be my year!

I keep delaying it and that is me being weak and not rushing into something that could end 20 years of a life I built.

I make it sound a little easier in hindsight, but I struggled with these decisions too (you can watch me struggle with how to deal with my SIL cheating on my BIL in one of my threads somewhere, where I can almost promise you I called myself weak too). I totally get how you feel. You are looking over the cliff, and know you have to jump into the water, but it's kinda scary. It's not weak to have to gather up the courage to do it.

Many doubts and many possibilities...
You don't need to do that, if being a detective wasn't your dream job. Is this the life you want to live? Always in doubt?

I think you have more than enough information to get a divorce and not to reconciliation.
She is away from honesty. The more you caught and confronted her, the deeper she moved her affaires, never gave up on them.

From now on, the biggest shock you can create for her will be the divorce papers that were served without her knowledge.

Yeah, I know the detective work I keep doing isn't helpful for me at all. Emotionally or physically. It consumes too much of my time. And as you say she just took it underground. I know I don't need more info....but for some reason I just want more proof...even if it doesn't make a difference in the end game. It's just not healthy.

I actually feel a little bad that I have been stringing her along the last two months and acting normal and then will drop all of this on her. I shouldn't feel bad as this is her fault....this isn't my fault....but I still do. I should have never let it get this far.

One thing I have learned in my time here is that you have to follow your own path and your own timetable. Whatever you decide, D or R, you will receive support here. I know sometimes posters seem impatient that you are not following the great advice instantaneously. But it is your life and you have to do it your own way and only when you are ready. In the meantime, get stronger for you. Work on yourself so no matter what happens you are in a stronger position mentally and emotionally. Secure your finances. How is your job or career? Get in shape and get out with friends.

Right now you are living in an untenable, painful limbo. At some point it will become too much to bear and you will seek some respite from the constant betrayal. You will know when you are ready. Read and implement the 180 here. Stop doing things for her. No idle chit chat. You need space to gather your thoughts.

Good luck.

I don't want to extract revenge per se but I want her to feel some pain.

Understandable, but you will have to come to accept that that you cannot make her feel something if she does not want to. It will only make you waste your own time and energies, which could be better devoted to healing yourself.

By 'wanting' this 'justice', all you will be doing is to keep yourself in limbo. Making excuses that she still does not feel anything yet, and you keep trying to 'hurt' her, and she still feels nothing. That keeps you in your Groundhog Day, not her. She will do whatever she wants. Ultimately, you will just lose your own 'self'.

You have to break out of this cycle if you want to get on with YOUR life.

Here’s what I did. I knew something was going on for months. But I was super busy and put myself in denial mode. Then one day I decided to figure out what happened. I did a data dump of her Ipad and her phone. Sifted through all the data and got the timeline. Then read some articles on interviewing criminals by some FBI agents. Then calmly woke my wife up . Told her what I knew and proceeded to pack her shit up in suitcases and told her she had to leave. Now the affair had been done for months so I wasn’t fighting limerance but I was fighting the we are just friends bullshit. But nothing was going to change until I started to stand up for myself. Yes we had a long prior history, yes we had two children and yes our families were intertwined. Yes it would be a mess going through a divorce , yes it would hurt me financially , emotionally and make me sick physically BUT I was NOT going to be ABUSED any longer. It felt empowering dumping her clothes into a suitcase. I felt courage and resolve coarse through my veins when I calmly told her she had to leave. You must stand up for yourself. Nobody else is going to do it for you.

My wife wouldn't either, at the first DDay she got all angry and defensive I had gone through her phone, then said they were just friends etc, nothing would happen blah blah blah..
Second DDay same shit, she instantly deleted her chat history, promised to tell me everything, but then totally failed to.. When I asked a hacker from work to help he soon pulled up everything (iPhone was on my email account) at which point she said she would leave (rather than admit the actual truth)..

Chesters cheat.. Lie.. DARVO like a mf.. It takes a nuclear strike to get any truth from them.. And your wife is doing the playlist.. My advice is to lawyer up.. Hit her without warning.. And know that divorce takes time.. Time she has a chance to change.. And if she doesn't then its time you saved yourself waiting for her to change.

Its advice I wish I had taken years ago.. Took me too long to realise.