SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

I’m very sorry you are here and in this situation.

Only you can figure out what’s best for you and what you want, but for me this would be a big fat pile of deal breaking falsehood and disrespect, and I say that as a person who is in reconciliation with someone who cheated on me.

Wanting to give your kids a decent holiday and not blow up everything over Christmas is reasonable, in my opinion.

Take the next two weeks to enjoy your kids and figure out your plan. Inform her of your plan once the new year hits, and start a new chapter of your life that doesn’t include someone who treats you like this.

I’m very sorry. No one deserves this.

[This message edited by Grieving at 1:42 AM, Thursday, December 23rd]

Speaking as one who opted for D after 7 months of trying to R, I can say this. Although D is difficult, there is something incredibly liberating about having your cheating piece of shit ex wife served her divorce papers. Yes, I know that we normally used acronyms, but damn it felt good to write that out.

Listen. You only have one life to live. It's incredibly precious. How do you want to live it?

[This message edited by Justsomeguy at 5:45 PM, Thursday, December 23rd]

Linc,

I'm truly sorry you find yourself here, but rest assured we understand all too well.

I can personally identify with aspects of your situation and offer this advice: Yes, cheaters can change. Serial cheaters very rarely do. I know this because I divorced my XWW because D-day 2 happened and I strongly suspected two APs were just a tip of the proverbial iceberg.

Any weakness you show now will be used against you by your WW. Remember that the sweet, loving, faithful young lady you married is no longer in the marriage - she's boffing others without remorse or concern.

She does not respect you. Every word she speaks, every action she takes, every sex partner she seeks is one more slap to your face.

Take it from someone who did all the wrong things for what I thought were all the right reasons - being anything other than Mr. Not Nice Guy will come back to haunt you.

I truly wish you good luck in this situation.

If you still have the VAR and GPS in her car then it is only a matter of time before you get your smoking gun.
If you plan on waiting through the Holidays before confronting I would keep or get those tools back in place and be ready to blow this thing up sky high as soon as she commits another act of adultery.
There is no way you should have to be home pretending to "make merry" for your kids while she’s out doing whatever she wants with whoever she wants. That is just too cruel of a punishment for you to endure.

If she won’t come clean you have limited options.

You can accept her for who and what she is (a lying disrespectful cheating spouse) and not expect anything different in the future. She appears to be a serial cheater. Not a good sign and a huge 🚩.

You can D her.

You can attempt to R - though if she continues to lie and has no remorse then you are wasting your time in trying to get her to change.

Best best - focus on your healing and your future — and do what is best for you. Your kids will be better off for it if they have one healthy moral parent.

Linc4180,

If you are D your WW, you don’t really need to hear any "explanations", justifications etc… I suggest you keep the conversations to a minimum and start to detach from her. You really don’t need any more information (whether she cheated, why etc…) from her except what pertains to the children.

Sleep in a different room, do things separately. It’s not to punish her, it’s for your emotional well being.

If you change your mind and want to R, be ready to be firm and have a set of conditions such as all electronic access, STD test, counselling, and written timeline of all her cheating, verified with a polygraph. You can’t trust anything she says right now, so you need a formal statement verified with a poly to get some truth.

Actually, I think the simple confrontation you're planning is a very good response to your W's As.

How is it going to work? Are you moving out of the home? Do you have a place to live? Or are you moving out of the Bedroom? Know that in-home separation is very difficult. Also, if you're considering IHS, I recommend doing your best to keep the most comfortable bedroom you've got and having her move, though she can and probably will resist.

Who will take care of the kids - cook for them, get them out of bed for school (assuming they're school-aged), take them to their activities? What will you tell the kids?

What are you going to do about finances?

Do you plan to separate or D?

IOW, you've got the outline of a good plan, and it will be very helpful if you plan the details as well as the high level.

Also - this is really important - you need to execute the plan. If you threaten to leave, you need to leave. If you're not ready for leaving, don't make the threat.

I, too, think a good IC would help you. You've accepted a lot more lying from your W than I think most people would, and that makes me wonder if your willingness to assert yourself is less than most people's. If so, it's worth examining, IMO, and deciding whether or not that's the way you want to be.

*****

There's a remote chance that your leaving will cause your W to turn around and become truthful. If she does that, R is possible, if you both want it and both do the work. It's a remote possibility, as I wrote, but it remains possible.

*****

This is one of the most painful experiences one can go through in life. The feelings of grief, anger, fear, and shame can be disabling. The experience is traumatic for almost every BS.

The way to heal is to feel the feelings while take care of yourself. Be kind to yourself - your W failed; you didn't. And have faith in yourself to heal. Healing doesn't come quickly enough, but if you keep working on it, it will come.

[This message edited by SI Staff at 4:43 PM, Thursday, December 23rd]

Sorry you had to join the group but you will get good responses. Protect yourself and your children. And you said you had been intimate with her, you know she was having sex with others, get STD testing.

It is hard over the holidays....I had my big confrontation right before the holidays. The children were adults, but decided we would get through it with them then deal with it. When I did my final confrontation....I had already asked...denials...I already asked about specific messages....lies. I finally had enough. I opened a bank account, split the money 50/50. I had found his secret email...I sent him a message to it...saying "We need to talk". I knew as soon as I left the room he would open the email...which he did. At that point, I told him I was DONE and I wanted a divorce. His world came crashing around him. He knew I was no longer the weak sniveling spouse that was accepting his lies. It wasn't until I was ready to stand up for myself that he took notice.

I think your wife is the same way. She is cheating and lies great...she appeases you (in her mind) and has no reason to stop doing it. She wants her life and her lovers. It is time for you to blow it out of the water. Remember...YOU did not do this...SHE did this. She has no one to blame. I personally found until I was ready to lose it all did he realize I meant business.

I wish I could say it was all sunshine and roses after because it wasn't. We are still together many years later, but the trust I had in him is gone forever. I trust him now...but not as blindly as I did back then.

Right now...take care of you and the children. Expect she will blame shift and make this because of you....it is not...she is the one who has caused this. At this time...do not show your hand...do not tell her where you got your info, keep that close to your vest.

brkn_heartd Brkn heartd nailed it. Please listen. Happy holidays to you Linc.

Let us know how you are doing

I would urge you to start using the 180. There are great explanations in the healing library in the tabs at the top of the screen.

From whst you've described i don't think you have much to work with here. Your gut and the limited info you have is telling you shes cheating but she refuses to admit. At this point, the only alternative I can see to R is have her take a polygraph...and ask her 3 simple questions, maybe 2...

1. Have you had sex with anyone since we became a committed couple

2. Have you formed an emotional connection with anyone since we became a committed couple

If she refuses to take one id see that as tacit admission of guilt.

I think a marriage can survive nearly anything if both parties put their mind to it. However – possibly at the top of the items that change it from anything to "nearly anything" are two closely related issues:

Doubt and lies.

At the moment one or both are taking place in your marriage. It’s highly likely that your wife is having some form of affair (emotional or most likely physical) and she’s lying about it. Even if she was truthful you have your doubts about her story.

For your marriage to have a shot of a chance you need to know the truth and you need to gradually get rid of your doubts. The later isn’t really too hard once you have the truth – if you know your WW had an affair it’s no longer a doubt, it’s a fact.

I also think you need to understand and think when doubts become reality. Like if you list the factors you already know:
>The excessive phone contact.
>The ability to be physically close.
>The search for hotels (irrespective of use of hotels).
>The search for astrological signs and compatibility
>The voice recordings.
>The vehicle location.

Very few here on SI experience what I did – to catch them in the act. Even then she made an attempt to convince me it wasn’t what I thought… At some point, most here have had to gather what they had and believed that evidence. This isn’t a court of law where you need to convince a jury or have a smoking gun. All you need is that YOU are convinced.
Maybe go over her expenses, her bank-account and credit-card. Maybe see if there are cash withdrawals or charges to hotels. Maybe check if she takes a gym-bag with her, or changes panties once she get’s home from the nights out. But maybe just run with what you already have…

I can share that many people here have confronted with lies. Not that you have to let her know how you know… But some have simply stated that they KNOW. That they have evidence, a friend told them, someone called… Just be vague enough but stand firm on your stance. Remember: it’s not as if she didn’t have the affair if you can’t prove it and had it if you can. It’s enough that you are convinced and then place it in her hands to prove she didn’t.

I have a relatively standard speech I share for those that are going to confront. The issue I want to avoid is where you shout "You are having an affair!" and she says "NO!" and you shout "You are having an affair!" and she says "NO!" and you shout "You are having an affair!" and she says "NO!" and you shout… and nothing changes. Instead treat this as a fact, and move on. Allow her to react to you instead of you reacting to her affair:

"Wife. I love you and always envisioned us together forever. However I have realized that there is something immensely worse than not being with you, and that is sharing you with another man. I KNOW you are having an affair. No – don’t even try to deny it. I KNOW and have all the proof I need to be 100% convinced. I’m old-fashioned in that I don’t share my toothbrush nor my wife.
I’m not forcing you to be married. I absolve you of any expectations or responsibilities or role as my wife. You are free to be with OM, date OM, spend the night with OM, talk about him to your friends… Whatever. But not as my wife.

Until or unless you tell me in a very clear and vocal way that you want this marriage and commit to certain conditions (such as telling me the whole truth, total and accountable NC and committing to IC and MC) I am simply assuming you have chosen your infidelity over our marriage and I will continue with the termination of our marriage.
Don’t worry – there are laws in our state that ensure the process is about as fair as possible. There isn’t any rush, we need to find some way to cohabit while this process goes through, but I am starting the process of detaching from you emotionally and suggest you find an attorney to guide you through the process of the formal detachment.

I ask that for our daughters sake you be discreet about the OM and keep him away from her and the house, but other than that feel free to spend as much time as you can with him. I would feel better if you aren’t around."

And then you go for a walk or make a sandwich or whatever. There really isn’t more to be said. If she refuses that she’s having an affair then stick to it that no – you KNOW she’s having an affair. If she insists then demand instant access to her phone, social media and whatever. It’s her job to convince you.

If she starts going on how you don’t listen to her, don’t appreciate her or whatever (they always do after this confrontation) your stock answer is:

I’m sorry you feel that way. If we were working on our marriage we might have to address that. However since you are committed to your infidelity there isn’t anything to gain by going there.

Get it? You remove each and every reason to argue with her. She’s dug her grave, now her options are to lie in it or start digging the dirt back in. It’s no concern of yours which she does – you are getting out of infidelity be it via divorce or eventual reconciliation.

Bigger's strategy directly above is a terrific approach to take. You have collected all the data you need, she is having an affair.

I 2nd Trdd, Biggers method is exceptionally well thought out and removes nearly all counter arguments that are possible to proffer.

I'm sorry you're going through this. Living the lie for family and friends is exhausting, but I get it. Working up the nerve to do the "final confrontation" is daunting and there is a huge amount of apprehension on pulling the trigger on "life as you know it" even if it isn't good. I'm in the process of doing this as well. Do you have a plan for what will happen after the confrontation if it doesn't go in the direction you want? I find that taking steps towards this made me feel more empowered and less like a chump going along with things. And don't feel bad about any upset to your family, you didn't do this to your family, she did.

Confrontation will get you nothing. Likely it will give her fuel.

Have her served. That will be all the confrontation necessary. Expose her affair to family and friends so she cannot spin the narrative.

Take precautions for yourself. Do not be alone with her. Carry a VAR with you to guard against false allegations of abuse or violence.

Do not engage with her unless the topic is childcare or divorce.

Hi Everyone,

Thanks for the messages and support. It means so much. Christmas was good. It was nice to be there with the kids knowing it may be the last one as a family. But it was definitely hard playing the happy husband roll. Especially when we were talking about what we were going to do next year for Xmas knowing it wouldn’t be the same.

I know you all have been through this before and everyone is different but I am I being childish when I think I don’t want her to get away with it? I don’t want to work it out because it isn’t fair that she was able to have multiple new relationships and then have her family too. If she admits the truth and we work it out she won’t lose anything. Sure she lost a boyfriend (assuming she really cuts it off) but she was able to keep her life and most likely her reputation. One of the biggest reasons I want to leave is so that everyone can see who she is and what she has done. And then she can feel some real pain and know that she has destroyed lives. It might be selfish of me to want to do this and juvenile but I don’t think I can live with myself if I don’t make her feel some pain. Cause all I feel is pain everyday and I think she thinks she got a free pass.

Bigger- thank you for what to say it definitely a great starting point and I am going to tailor it to my situation and pretty much use it.

Wendygirl-when you say steps if things don’t go my way in confrontation what do you mean? I assume things won’t go my way and she will just deny and I leave.

That's not childish at all. That's called having self-respect, boundaries, and consequences for actions.

If she admits the truth and we work it out she won’t lose anything

Regardless of R or D she needs to admit ALL of what’s she’s done to her family and yours (not the sordid details like sex positions, but all of the big picture lowlights). Your instincts are right: should you choose R but with no consequences to her, there’s an extremely high chance of recidivism and understandable resentment burning within you. Don’t go this route!!

You also need to repeat to yourself like a mantra "Consequences are NOT punishment!!". Having her experience the natural outcomes of her treacherous choices is not only treating her like an adult but also in the big picture the best thing for her, to set the stage for her motivation to change and perhaps do less shitty things in her future, whether with you or not.

If she admits the truth and we work it out she won’t lose anything.

Not true.
Ending this affair is only one step.

Look – IF this is infidelity (and I do think it is) there are really only two good ways out if it. Keep in mind that your goal isn’t divorce or reconciliation. Your goal is that some months from now (how long is based on your tolerance) YOU are getting out of infidelity.
If your wife ends the affair and starts the work required she can come along with you. If she doesn’t then it doesn’t stop you from moving on.

It’s a bit like this: Imagine you need to get some life-saving treatment in a distant city. It’s the only place and the only treatment you can get, and to get there you need to take an old-fashioned train. You ask your wife to come along with you. She refuses. You go online and buy 2 tickets just in case. You pack your bag and ask your wife to come along. She refuses, yet you pack an overnight bag for her and load into the car. You ask your wife to drive you to the station and she does. On the way you ask again that she comes with you and again she refuses. She agrees to walk you to the platform and there you again ask her to come along. She refuse so you get on the train. Again through the door you ask her to come and she refuses. The door closes and the train pulls away. You go get your treatment.

At every stage you offered her a path to go with you, but irrespective of her reply you moved on.

That’s what lies ahead for you. You can give her options to follow, but irrespective of her response the important part is that you move on and don’t stop until you reach the destination.

OK – so IF she admits to the affair then the next step that can possibly postpone the formal process of ending the marriage is getting the truth.
It’s extremely rare that the truth is known at d-day. It’s important that you stress that any truth now will do less damage than discovering something – be it deliberate or by omittance – a month or two from now. But realistically it will take a couple of days of intense questioning before you get a sense of having the truth.
We often recommend using a polygraph to confirm the honesty. I personally think this is something best done a couple of months into the process.

IF your wife and you work on reconciliation then part of the process is her accountability. If you truly think your wife can reconcile while still having no remorse, no guilt, no sense of shame, no regret… then IMHO your wife isn’t reconciliation material.
This is so important: In a couple of years there can’t be ANYTHING positive left behind from the affair. There can be positives from the hard work placed into reconciliation, but they are a consequence of THAT work – not the affair.
It’s not that she has to live the guilt daily or constantly be remorseful. If you reconcile you two need normal couples dynamics. But occasionally she needs to glance towards you thinking "what was I thinking to risk this".

About punishment… Is there any appropriate punishment for what she did? I don’t think so.