SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

I haven't talked to a lawyer yet. I know I need to. I also know I need to separate finances. You have given excellent advice. I just haven't done it. I could make excuses, but I just don't care enough to do it yet. I am working on that. The apathy is very hard to overcome. I can't tell you how many responses on here I've typed and then just closed the window because I didn't care enough to finish typing.

The kids seem to be completely untouched by all this. They are extremely smart kids, top of their classes, and we both have good relationships with them. One of them is a little more cruel when she gets snippy with her mom now, but my relationship with them seems unchanged. Me and my kids are big nerds so we have plenty of movie/comic/anime/music/games stuff to talk about. If anything, we are tighter.

Even though I haven't yet taken the advice, I do very much appreciate it. I'll get there, hopefully.

Are you in counseling?
Your self-admitted apathy can be a very strong indicator for depression.

Today is potentially a very triggering day...it's the first time since D-Day I'm going to be working at the same place as my wife and her AP. (My job requires me to go to different sites, and often their workplace is the site.) He usually is in a different building, so it's unlikely I'll run into him, but it's a possibility.

Bigger, I was already in therapy and pretty heavily medicated before D-Day, so I'm all good there. I already had depression. Honestly, this indifference to the world is the best I've felt in years. I feel free. I don't have to do anything anymore. I could walk out the door with nothing but the clothes on my back and be okay.

I feel like my life is just beginning to start. I'm almost excited about it today. Maybe I'm coming out of the apathy.

The feeling of feeling free is a great start. Use that feeling to start to take control of your life and how you want to live and with whom. Use that feeling to get out of this limbo you've been in.

You don't have to take every step or action we've been suggesting you in this thread all at once (that's impossible.) Make a list of things you feel you need to do (I highly advise, no, implore you, that you put consulting an attorney(s) at the top of the list.) And then work your way down the list. Heck, today all you may accomplish is making a list of things to do. If so- great that's your first step.

Kinda like Matt Damon's character in The Martian. You work one problem, accomplish one thing and then move on to the next problem or step. Adjust the list as necessary as you go. As you work the list, you'll start to feel better as you start to take control of your life. Eventually, you'll come to the fork in the road where you need to make the ultimate decision of whether to divorce or attempt R. But you need as much information as you can get to make a clear eye decision. No matter what, you should feel a hell of a lot better in your life by taking control.

Make 2 copies of the list, keep one at work in you desk/locker/wherever...another one on your phone under a password protected file.

Review the list with the attorney(s) during your initial consults, they will have advice and will tell you what documents they will need before they can initiate the divorce petition (identifiers for you, your WW and children, financial info, X# of years of past tax returns, marriage license, etc.-- add those needed documents to your list.) They will most likely have additional steps that you will need to take. Ask them about separating finances... more than likely that will be in the next few steps on your list... but this is already getting too long.

Take it one step at a time AllThatJazz.

How are things going AllThatJazz? Has the apathy subsided?

Thanks for checking on me, ASC. I'm doing okay. Mostly past the apathy. Doing the 180 and just living my life like I was a single person (except for dating, I'm not interested in that and, if divorce occurs, still probably won't be for a long time). Getting out, doing 5Ks, going to movies by myself, spending more time with the kids, etc. I am enjoying the amount of women who tell me I look great and/or cute. It's been a long time since I've heard that. (I've lost a lot of weight and am taking much better care of myself.) I spent several days away for a job-related conference and I felt like the old happy me from before I got married. I know there's a good path out there should I decide to not reconcile.

Still haven't talked to a lawyer. Still know I need to. I'm not quite ready financially or mentally to deal with that fallout when she inevitably finds out.

This weekend is the event I think I may have mentioned before...where all four of us involved will be at the same event with all of our children. It's really unavoidable, but I think I can handle it now. I'm not going to sit with my wife. Going to sit with my father instead, she can just sit with her parents. I feel I will get a good glimpse into how my wife's AP and his wife are dealing with it (which I think is likely rug-sweeping). I actually feel its time for me to see them. I'll be monitoring how my wife reacts to all this. I'm hoping I have developed the strength to push through the certain trigger this event will cause.

I'm not sure what to report about my wife's reactions to the 180. I'm not paying a lot of attention in that respect. If I had to guess, I'd say she thinks I'm just mad at her. No real reason, but that's her default when I'm not paying attention to her. She keeps wanting to have long discussions still, but I just tell her I'm not interested in discussing our marriage currently. She sulks off, head down, literally.

It's 3 and a half months post D-Day.

Trust is the foundation of love. After D-Day, both of you need to work on rebuilding it. If trust cannot be restored, then your marriage has no future.

Have an update AllThatJazz?

Hope things are becoming clearer for you.

It sounds like you may be on what is often called The Plain of Lethal Flatness. It's a common phase that betrayed go through where they are emotionally spent. It's perfectly normal. The ominous "lethal" part is in remaining stuck there forever. Allow yourself some grace. Regroup, recharge, decide what you want and take action.

It's always tough reading these threads and then realizing they started a while back. There are so many things that you want to warn people about but it's already too late.

I would suggest reading "Cheating in a Nutshell." I don't think it's commonly recommended here because it is not hopeful when it comes to reconciliation. But it was the book that finally opened my eyes to how traumatic what I had experienced was, and how everything I did in response was based on how my personal baggage caused me to handle that trauma.

I would also suggest reading "Not Just Friends." One of the things to be wary of is your "War Council" of female friends, comments about having so many female friends, and a "work wife." These are all red flags that you could easily find yourself on the wrong side of this moral equation. Straight, opposite sex friendships are dangerous. You are dancing on a volcano. Sharing intimate details of your marriage with an opposite sex friend is very borderline.

Cheating is cheating. The marriage isn't over until you have told her that it's over and you're no longer bound by those vows. Stay strong.

Wishing you the best.

First off, I think it's probably best if a mod moves this thread to General or wherever it needs to go. I don't feel I've "Just Found Out" anymore and I think my weird situation is probably no longer helpful to those who are just finding out.

We had the big event where all of our kids and AP's family were all together in the same room for about 2 hours. It was fine, really. AP and his wife sat far away and they sat with an empty chair between them. I tried to sit with my father and told my WW to sit with her parents, but she chose to sit beside me. In the mingling after the event, our two families stayed far apart. I wasn't triggered. I did keep eyes on AP and his wife, just to judge their situation. Looked like they were not doing well.

A couple weeks back, AP's wife sent a message to my WW that basically accused me of trying to get AP fired by talking to his boss about the affair. I have not spoken to his boss since long before DDay. (My job does sometimes involve talking to his boss, but even if I do, I'm not going to try to get him fired.) That would also result in my WW being fired and losing our main source of income. Anyway, AP's wife also said the affair is becoming known in the community. It hasn't broken wide yet, but I expect it to any day now. I'm surprised it hasn't yet. AP's wife is definitely doing the Mama-Bear-protect-her-kids route. Rug sweeping. Two of her kids are in my WW's classes. That will be interesting when they find out.

Edited to remove a line I don't want WW to see. Hi, WW!

The 180/Gray Rock method seems to have worked. She has made what I consider to be real progress, mostly along communication lines. She does not assume or second-guess my moods or reactions anymore. That is a new thing in our marriage after 16 years. It's improved enough that I have backed off on the 180 a little for now. We had been intimate a few times in the last week, and it was good. First time we've been intimate since the 2-week hysterical bonding period right after DDay. We also cuddle while sleeping, something that hasn't happened in a decade. We watch shows together. This part is nice and feels good.

That said, there are of course still issues. I do not trust or believe her at all. About anything, really. But I'm realizing I don't care that much. My love for her is done. She's just the mother of half my children and the person I'm currently sleeping with. Nothing more, and she never will be more. My wedding ring is long gone. Our vows are void. And I've told her this.

In my 20s (I'm 51 now), I was in 2 separate relationships, one for 9 months, one for 3 years, where I lived with two different women (not at the same time). We didn't say "I love you" and we didn't expect the relationships to go anywhere. Just sex and sharing financial responsibilities. Roommates with benefits, kind of. I have started to think of my current marriage as this same type of situation, and that has made all the difference. (Apologies to Mr. Frost)

I have been upfront about this to my WW. I told her I consider our marriage over. I said I don't necessarily want a divorce yet, but will seek one if anything happens again or if I decide I want something more serious. She did not initially take that well, but things have been actually kind of nice since then. I just let go of my hopes for my marriage and just see her a "person I'm currently living and sleeping with." That is certainly not an answer for anybody but me, and I get that.

My mental state is fantastic. I'm generally content and even happy most of the time now. My therapist is setting my sessions monthly now instead of weekly. She says I'm doing great. I have a huge sense of freedom. I go and do whatever I want. I buy whatever I want. I've had a lot of fun getting out in the community and interacting as myself instead of half of a couple. By the way, going to movies by myself is the best way to go see movies! Nobody asking me questions about plot points or backstory or falling asleep beside me. I feel more of a complete person now, independent of anyone else.

I've also told my WW that I do not accept any anger from her about anything and never will again. I think I may have said that before on here, but I've told her again. And she is respecting that. I am unashamedly smoking again. I drink a few glasses of wine at night. I know she doesn't like either of those, but I do not care. I'm not a dick to her. I'm kind. I don't know how long this will last, but I also don't care about that. In fact, it's kind of exciting. I feel alive.

Thank you for checking in on me, Nuke. Thank you for your post, Seeking. I hear your concerns about my War Council. I only have one close male friend and he lives several states away. As it happens, he is also going through a potentially marriage-ending situation not of his making. His is not my story to tell, though. So I have mostly shifted to speaking to him online when we need to vent, etc. The all-female War Council was all I had available at the time, and it helped me survive those first months. I don't regret it a bit, and we always all met together in public.

Seeking, I don't know what to do about female friends. Yes, straight opposite sex friendships can be dangerous. Obviously, since that's what got my WW into the situation we are in. All I can say is she has always had mostly female friends except for these 2 males that she eventually slept with. I, however, have had almost exclusively women friends my entire life. I don't usually get along with men enough to form strong friendship bonds. The one I mentioned earlier in this post I have literally known since I was a month old. He was there when I came home from being adopted. There are pics (I don't remember it ha ha). I have several gay men friends, I guess, but the only one of those I could really see myself opening up to is also best friends with my WW. (He did not know about the affair btw and was shocked when she told him.) I make friends with women easily because I'm not interested in screwing them and I am a good listener. That's a central part of who I am and I'm not changing that. I like that about myself.

Oh! Almost forgot. Yesterday one of my War Council was working in the same building as AP. It normally would have been me, but I refuse to go there anymore and she is willing to cover whenever I'm supposed to. Anyway, AP needlessly stopped by and spoke to her for 15 minutes. He offered to help her anytime she needs anything, even if she just needed someone to talk to. They barely even know each other. She thought it really strange. I'm not sure how to take it, and would welcome any insights on this.

[This message edited by AllThatJazz at 6:37 PM, Thursday, October 23rd]

He offered to help her anytime she needs anything, even if she just needed someone to talk to. They barely even know each other. She thought it really strange. I'm not sure how to take it, and would welcome any insights on this.

He’s looking for his next affair partner. Bet he’s offering to "help" a lot of women.

Agree. He’s looking for another woman. Just can’t help himself. Your war counsel woman could record their interactions. Wouldn’t be long before he starts propositioning her.

On another note, you’re doing fantastic under the circumstances! Building your self respect back up, taking no shit, doing things you want to do without worrying about WW’s opinion. With what you have to work with, I’d probably be handling that situation in a similar way.

His poor wife. This is her reality.

I am always puzzled at adults who cannot see past their noses when someone gives them butterflies. HELLO! You are married! Two people managed to screw up two families, and for what? We have a prefrontal cortex that is the governor. It is suppose to be what keeps us from being stupid. BUT, you have managed to get out from under that mess handed to you so congratulations. Keep on keeping on.

I initially thought he was trying to set up something new with my War Council friend, too, but really? That just seems so damn blatant. I know he's under intense scrutiny with his wife. Plus his boss supposedly knows of his affair with my WW, and this occurred right across from his boss's open-doored office. Plus I'd have to think he knows she is on my side. But he is really arrogant and somewhat stupid, so maybe.

Thank you for the support, OhItsYou and Cooley! I do feel pretty great most of the time. I don't think about the affair anywhere near as much as I used to.

Breaking news: My wife just walked up behind me and saw me typing this up. (I am working in her building today and stupidly had my back to the door.) So now she will undoubtedly go to the site and read everything I've posted. Sigh. Any advice on how to handle that?

[This message edited by AllThatJazz at 7:02 PM, Thursday, October 23rd]

If she finds this it might be good for her. She will see how other people reacted to your post. People who have walked around in your shoes. People who know how she would act and react because her affair was just a garden variety. She might begin to understand what happens when people forget their moral center for some short term excitement. You just keep going.

Respectfully, if you truly mean what you say, and your indifference is not just a coping mechanism, then it will not matter one whit if she reads your posts.

You have already set a boundary over not being a punching bag for her projected anger.

You are already at a significant level of indifference.

The fact of the matter is you would have ZERO reason to post on this site if she had not forsaken her vows. Zero...nada, zip, zilch.

Let her own this like all of the other consequences she has experienced due to her infidelity, and use her reaction as yet another data point for you when you ultimately decide to make a change.

Far Side, you're absolutely right. I have sat here for half an hour thinking about what that I've posted is going to set her off, trying to decide if I need to edit stuff out (I did edit one single line from an earlier post today and fixed some typos). At the end of the day I've said what I've said, and I stand by it. You all have been such a great support system. I'm sure if I went back and read all my posts it would be a journal of my honest feelings over the past almost 5 months. Most of which I have said to her anyway. So I'm okay with her reading it. She can get irked if she wants, but I don't accept anger from her anymore.

You've got it.

If she loses her shit, simply restate your boundaries and go do something that matters to you.