SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

So he's mad that you had a side "affair" when he ghosted you. (Psst. That wasn't an affair. You're single. That was just dating.)

He's gaslighting the hell out of you trying to make you think that you're the problem. It's working, evidently, because here you are, trying to figure out how to make this unavailable, manipulative, gaslighting man come back to you. It's not that he doesn't believe your story, it's that "not believing" it is a terrific excuse to remain distant and stay comfortably in his marriage.

He's a user. He was using you. Now he has to manipulate you into - and keep you in - a headspace where you're less likely to tell his wife. If he dangles just enough "I want you, but..." you'll stay on the hook.

You might be too close to see it, but that's exactly what's going on.

He's got you completely mindf*cked.

[This message edited by SacredSoul33 at 4:19 PM, Tuesday, April 22nd]

Seems to me that you are one of many affair partners, as far as the primary dynamic. I'm not sure following the usual advice for WS/BS will work with this "partner", because I'm not seeing much of anything to work on.

First I commend you for posting and seeking help. It appears you are both waywards as the relationship started that way. I can't tell if you are married or not if it is the latter I would end this relationship as it sounds like it was never healthy and isn't healthy now. I sense a need to control from him and he also uses abandonment and silence to punish you both are abusive.

Were you broken up at the time you had your A? If so and if you are not married I honestly don't view it as an affair. Did he also keep cheating during your relationship? It certainly sounds like it. Is he actually divorced from his ex-wife?

It sounds like hell and not a very healthy situation for either of you.

I would make an appointment with an IC and get healthy yourself, learn from these mistakes and move on to a healthier situation for you.

[This message edited by crazyblindsided at 6:11 PM, Tuesday, April 22nd]

So these kids of yours are they from your first marriage? Do you share custody or were the kids just at school or something when you were getting high and watching TV with Z? Why did you cheat on your first husband and throw all that away, just to chase after your "soul mate"? Curious what kind of guy he is/was but perhaps that's irrelevant to all this.

I want to say thank you so much to everyone who has responded. I have read and reread all of them, and I so greatly appreciate taking the time to share your thoughts and give me advice. I know I'm not showing my best here but I am immensely grateful for your honest feedback.

I don't think we made much progress today, he has maintained his stance. He says he is more than willing to talk to me only if I am completely open and honest, and Im willing to be fully accountable. He won't respond back to me otherwise. I had contacted a polygraph examiner, I told him I was going to use a list of questions he had asked me this morning. He said he thinks I am using doing a polygraph exam to manipulate him. I'm not sure how and he didn't expand further.

I guess in my head I thought BH and I could sit down, acknowledge that we're both not good people, we've both been shitty to the other, here's your insecurities and what you need from me, here's my insecurities and what I need from you, and we could move forward together. Is my thinking flawed or is there something from BH's perspective that I am missing?

I am concerned that I am making matters significantly worse. I am honestly not trying to at all. I'm nervous and a bit afraid about what tomorrow will bring, I just don't want to make things even worse than they are now.

He is not your BH. You are an AP. He is a WS. And you are in an active affair.

I feel like giving you relationship advice is tantamount to assisting you to conduct an affair.

As you can imagine, I'm against this.

I think you need to forget about relationships for a long time. 3-5 years of individual therapy. Make yourself whole before trying to build a relationship. When you do that, you won't need people on the internet advising you that the situation you've been part of and are still actively part of - are wrong. You'll know for yourself.

That's all I've got.

[This message edited by DRSOOLERS at 10:11 AM, Wednesday, April 23rd]

I am glad you are still here reading and re-reading. I know it is a lot to absorb and it will take a LOT of time. I wish I could go back and see the gems of wisdom I was given when I first posted. I also was very lost and misguided in my thoughts. I was glad to find SI but wished I found it much sooner and I could have save myself from some missteps along the way.

Is my thinking flawed or is there something from BH's perspective that I am missing?

You need to put on your own oxygen mask first. You must work on yourself first before you can attempt to have a healthy relationship (with anyone).

You have been given lots of good advice. I know you are not ready to see some of it yet; but that is ok. It is a process and you will get there....just keep at it!

Your thinking seems to be very flawed, IMO (and in the opinion of so many other responders),

You're a WS in your previous relationship. You may be a madhatter - betrayed and betrayer in this relationship, but you may be just a BS. The person you call 'BH' looks like a WS to me, but he could be a madhatter.

He ghosted you. He refused to respond to you. I have a hard time seeing you as a WS.

This guy is gaslighting you. Your description says he's a betrayer. Your posts say he's gaslighting you.

My reco is to get a copy of Co-Dependent No More, read it, and take in the info.

My 2nd reco is to find a good therapist.

Stop selling yourself out.

I'm really sorry you're hooked on a guy who doesn't deserve you.

I'm really sorry you're focusing on trying to win this guy instead of working on your own healing from cheating and being cheated on.

From that point on things were far more chaotic and hot and cold than previous until 2019 when he did indeed divorce his wife.

Did you see the paperwork, or are you taking him at his word?

If I'm understanding this correctly, you were never married. Your relationship started as an A, and you say he got divorced, but there are lots and lots of clues indicating that he never left his wife and is still married to her. It sure reads to me like you're the AP, he's a WS to his unaware BS, your affair is still limping along, and that you're asking us for advice on how to keep it going.

[This message edited by SacredSoul33 at 3:30 PM, Wednesday, April 23rd]

"Stop selling yourself out.

I'm really sorry you're hooked on a guy who doesn't deserve you.

I'm really sorry you're focusing on trying to win this guy instead of working on your own healing from cheating and being cheated on."

I am in total agreement with sisoon.

[This message edited by Lost1313 at 3:40 PM, Wednesday, April 23rd]

If I'm understanding this correctly, you were never married. Your relationship started as an A, and you say he got divorced, but there are lots and lots of clues indicating that he never left his wife and is still married to her. It sure reads to me like you're the AP, he's a WS to his unaware BS, your affair is still limping along, and that you're asking us for advice on how to keep it going.

Yes I'm very confused about the details of this relationship. It sounds to me like he may still be married or if they are D'd he still was seeing his ex-wife during this new R that started as an A.

OP I think some clarity would help some of the posters here in giving advice.

unpackshare, I hope you are still reading here. I think you might be confused by some of the acronyms, so here's some help:

BH - "Betrayed Husband" - a person whose legally married wife cheats on him (BW would be "Betrayed Wife", BS would be "Betrayed Spouse")
BP - "Betrayed Partner" - a person whose partner/girlfriend/boyfriend (not legally married) has cheated

WH - "Wayward Husband" - a person who cheated on their legally married wife (WW is "Wayward Wife", WS is "Wayward Spouse")
WP - "Wayward Partner" - a person whose cheated on their partner/girlfriend/boyfriend (not legally married)

MH - "Mad Hatter" - a person who has both cheated and been cheated on by their romantic partner or legal spouse

AP - "Affair Partner" the person outside the relationship who did the cheating with the WH/WW/WS

OBS - "Other Betrayed Spouse" - if the affair partner (AP) is also married, OBS is their spouse

People also use "A" for Affair, "R" for Reconciliation, and "D" for Divorce.

In your case, it sounds like you were married long ago, and you had an affair with A. So back then, you were definitely the "WW" (Wayward Wife), and A was a "WS" (Wayward Husband) to his wife. Since then, both of you divorced, but now it seems like A is back with his ex-wife (a BW), or maybe he never really left her.

Right now, from what I can tell, you are not married to A, so he is definitely not a "BH", but he thinks of himself as a "BP" (Betrayed Partner) because of your former relationship with Z, and he's convinced you that you are a "WP" (Wayward Partner) even though he was not actively seeing you or communicating with you at the time.

I agree with a lot of the others that what you did with Z was not cheating! What you're doing with A might make you an AP (Affair Partner) if A is still with his wife (or some other woman).

Honestly, from what I can tell, A doesn't seem good for you. Why are you so convinced that he's "your person"? Is it because he can support you financially, like buying you a car? Is it great sex? Emotionally, he seems to be making your life a living hell, and he doesn't seem inclined to spend time with you or support you in the home.

I would suggest working with your therapist on self love and self respect. You are chasing a guy who has made it pretty clear that he's happy to have flings with you, but he doesn't want to build a life with you, and he doesn't respect you. You have to believe that you are worthy of love and respect before you can find someone who will treat you with love and respect. A is not that guy.

[This message edited by NoThanksForTheMemories at 6:11 PM, Wednesday, April 23rd]