SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Really struggling with my husband's long term emotional affair with his married coworker that he swears there was no romantic feelings for, so sexual tension with etc, only that they got too close and too attached and spent a lot of time discussing their families, laughing, her daughter troubles, his pride of his adult child (a professional) from his first marriage, his grandkids, etc and it was all innocent EVEN though he knew I was suspicious and he often treated me cooly and with contempt and condescension during this time?

I am ready to throw in the towel and blow up my own life over this because he refuses to discuss it and swears it was innocent. But mainly for the damage it did to my self esteem and my l life and something I never recovered from. These two "friends" went to events outside of the office together that were NOT work related on a few occasions and I was not aware of this and I was also not aware of how close
"friends" they were. He kept secrets. Do married people let "Just friends" come before their marriages and put "Just friends" over their spouses?

We were having sex during this time. Good sex, I thought.

I had my suspicions of him and her, but when I asked him all I got was stone walling and "we are just friends". After several months he stopped mentioning her name but their "friendship" continue to flourish, I was just kept int the dark. My gut KNEW he was involved with someone and when I would try to address my concerns he blew me off by basically denying it then getting mean to me. Gave me zero reassurance and knew that I was stressed over it

IS IF POSSIBLE he is telling the truth? NO sexual attraction, wasn't looking for romance, even though, he admits she was attractive, he thought she was cute, smart and physically fit, same as him?

Thank you.
I am drowning in bitterness, resentment and regretting ever meeting him.
I feel like I am still being gaslit and he is asking me to believe what for me is not believable.

This has hurt my life, my health, my esteem, the way I view people and so much more.

I trust no one now and I am not happy. And I am OLD. 70 and feel like it is too late to start over so I am forced to suck it up and accept that I will wake up thinking of this and having this shit on my mind throughout most days. It seems unresolvable and I HATE being in this position.

I was seeing a counselor when all this was happening! And she too gaslit me and thought the problem was MY anxiety all the while he had attached himself to someone else and emotionally abandoned me.
Now he wants a great life with me but to me he is NOT a safe partner, and while I do love him and and am bonded to him (almost 40 years together), I have a wall up and I don't feel the same.

I apologize for typos.

Possible? Yes, I suppose about anything is possible. Probable? Less so.

Regardless, his secrecy placed his relationship with her above his relationship with you, whether he felt sexual tension or not. That's a big betrayal on its own and keeping it all secret is not good.

Although unsuccessful with your previous IC, would you be able to find a different one to help. One that has betrayal trauma experience may be helpful.

Not Just Friends by Shirley Glass has a nice little quiz.

The EA is an A even if it wasn't physical at all, even if it wasn't sexual. It could still be romantic.

Did they have any 1-1 dinners that he hid from you, for example. That's a secret date. He was dating another woman and lying about the extent of their interactions on a regular basis.

[This message edited by This0is0Fine at 7:01 PM, Wednesday, July 23rd]

It’s possible, but seems very, very unlikely. When I first discovered my husband’s affair by happening to look at our phone bill and seeing thousands of texts and calls to one number, he swore up and down, over and over, that they were just close friends, and he just hadn’t told me about it because he was afraid I’d feel insecure. His gaslighting twisted me into absolute knots. I felt crazy, and careened back and forth between not believing him and feeling like I was being a terrible, jealous, untrusting person. After a month I had a moment of clarity where I looked at him and thought very calmly and with complete clarity, "I don’t believe you." I stopped talking to him about it, went digging harder, and found evidence that it was a physical and emotional affair. When I confronted him with that, he fessed up completely.

Admittedly I may be biased by experience, but I think it’s very unlikely that your husband and this woman were "just friends." Regardless, him stonewalling you and hiding things would be a dealbreaker for me. You and he both should read the Shirley Glass book (it’s great), and I think you should trust your gut and common sense, especially if you’re not a person who’s prone to being overly suspicious or accusatory.

One of the promises I’ve made to myself is that I will never again trust someone’s words if they fly in the face of evidence, common sense, and my instinct. Doing that is a sure road map to feeling completely crazy.

I think this was my first time posting here and I don't know how to post to individual comments.

Regarding IC, went for years and I resent having to spend my time and money to go sit and hash this out with someone once a week over a year or two of my life when I don't believe it will benefit me.

There are no betrayal trauma specialist in my area, I have searched high and low, otherwise I would consider IC. I definitely have betrayal trauma.

I agree with you Leafields, "Probable? Less so. He is protecting himself by claiming otherwise.
If it was just a close friend, which he shouldn't have even had a close friend of the opposite sex in my opinion especially knowing I was concerned about their relationship. While they worked in the same building about 30 feet apart, they did NOT work for the same projects or together so it's not like they were working for the same boss or on the same projects.

He helped her learn some programs (so sweet of him), and he helped her with her retirement package???? Her own husband is an MBA and she is educated! So why in the hell would she need my husband to look over her retirement package? To me, that is VERY PERSONAL.

She left the company (retired) two years after them meeting and they went no contact and somehow he thinks that's proof it was nothing but a friendship.
He went out of his way, five days a week to spend time with her in her cubicle work area. I suspect she went no contact to end the EA and if she hadn't left, no telling what this would have become. She may have had enough sense not to blow her life up over a married man and she may have had enough love and respect for her own husband not to ruin her marriage. My husband claims nothing was said between them about anything inappropriate but that he still go too close and too attached to her and that she was always happy to see him.

As far as I know they did not have dinners. They went a few placer together and he went to her house for a meeting but a few other people were there.
They have conference rooms at work....
He said he felt weird going to her house and like he shouldn't have done it because they were "so close". But he claims going other places with her alone seemed innocent.

ThisOisOFine, I bought the book Not Just Friends, and he looked at it a little and din't much bother so I got pissed after a month and threw it in the trash.
He has left me to pick up the pieces of my brokenness. He says his behavior was "wrong". That's about it. He says he knows he was dismissive of me and cold sometimes but that's normal in marriage. Nope! It was during his "friendship".
I feel like he was basically dating her at work spending so much one on one time that they felt close enough to go places together.

Grieving, "One of the promises I’ve made to myself is that I will never again trust someone’s words if they fly in the face of evidence, common sense, and my instinct. Doing that is a sure road map to feeling completely crazy." YES. He is still making me feel like I am blowing something innocent out of proportion. So I am still feeling CRAZY. During it, he wanted me to think it was all me and I was crazy.
The trauma I went through during this and after this never was addressed or healed and I had a lot of other major life events before (illness and death of beloved parent, and them my own illness, shortly before and during his friendship started, which makes me even more resentful. He was not there for me during those and treated me with contempt rather than love and support.

Thank you all for your time and comments.

I don't think so. Healthy men and women, if given an opportunity, will have sex. It's what adults do. I know you want to believe anything but this, but it's the most likely answer. We all know this. Even without the sex, this relationship has made you uncomfortable, you've obviously felt like you've had a rival in the marriage, the energy is being siphoned off you and the kids - esp you - and going to this person. You've asked him to stop and he won't, he takes underground (so to speak).

So whether he is literally having sex with this person or not....he regards her MORE HIGHLY THAN HE REGARDS YOU because it is making you unhappy and uncomfortable and yet he continues. This is gross disrespect and lack of caring for YOU, and way too much for HER. Even if this were a friend, if my husband had a friend - even a male friend - that I thought was hurting me and the marriage I'd have to tell him, I want you to stop seeing, being involved with this person. If he won't - then I know where I stand. So, what do you do? He's not gonna tell you the truth, you can play PI (or actually get one) and see if they're having sex - I would just assume yes, you can continue to complain to him with the same result or him going even further underground or getting angry or whatever- but not stopping, you can decide to accept it...but you don't fully know what you're accepting and if he might leave you for her (because that happens), or you can say, I'm not putting up with this any more, I want a divorce.

That's what I would do, I'd tell him I'm filing for divorce and go talk to a lawyer. You don't have to go through with it, you can call it back at any point, or you can go all the way. but unless you're prepared to take action that makes this man start RESPECTING YOU AND YOUR WISHES, this is what you're gonna continue to get. Marriage counseling is not gonna help - he's only gonna lie there too and probably end up blaming you. "What you don't want me to have friend?" No, not like this.

So....that would be my advice, it's hard core I know, but I think people need to start getting hard core and active in their responses to these situations. Most of the time, unless they voluntarily change which they usually don't, it's the only way to take action that will empower your life and maybe - maybe - make a difference in the relationship. Do understand though, that as I think he values her more than you (or he'd give up the relationship) - he might be willing to leave you anyway so...I'd get the jump on him. Give him the cold fish of reality - talk to that lawyer! You may end up there one way or another and it's best if you empower yourself with action rather than waiting and wondering and hoping.

P.S. Grieving is right - ALWAYS trust your gut. It's almost always right. I think in your heart you know what's going on, it's just so difficult and painful to face and most of us never thought we'd get here but....here we are. Again, I'd recommend taking action, it might jolt him out of it but it would also make you feel like you're once again, in charge of your own life. We can't wait around for others to wake up and stop abusing us. We have to stop the abuse ourselves - and find people like lawyers who can assist.

I'm sorry for another post but like Columbo....I have one more thing. OP, go to the lawyer FIRST before you say anything to your husband, shop around a bit, pick the best one you can, with the best rep that you feel comfortable with, etc, and tell them your story. Take any financials you can with you. Doesn't sound like you have concrete evidence of cheating you can show someone now, it you live in a NO FAULT area or state, it may not matter if he's cheating. If it's AT FAULT, it may help you. The lawyer can advise. They'll also tell you how to collect info, if necessary, and how to progress, etc. You might also get individual counseling but keep it from him. Don't tell him what you're doing until you're ready to ANNOUNCE. No weeping, no hinting, nothing. Get your ducks in order with the lawyer. It will make you feel better, it will give you a weapon if you need it, and it will protect you also because someone this infatuated with somebody, could up and leave. I don't want to scare you, but you need to protect yourself in all eventualities. This man values his friend more than you right now, that's high disrespect. He might decide he'd rather be with her, he'd probably like to keep both of you. They'll do just as much as you let them do.
So go to that lawyer first. And I hate to say this - but get an STD test also, just in case. It's better to be safe than sorry.

Very few people like to be threatened. A threat adds an issue when there are already too many issues that need resolutions. A threat I' can throw the threatened person into a panic, and that person may become unpredictable, when without the threat you've got a decent understanding of how that person responds in a given situation. I am firmly on the side of setting boundaries and planning what you'll do when they're violated.

By all means, it makes sense to check out some lawyers. My reco, though, is not to mention D until and unless you mean it. You just can't predict what will happen if you go nuclear in the hope of eliciting change. Using D as a threat opens you up to too many unintended consequences.

I agree that your H has caused problems in your M. I agree he's difficult and unsupportive enough to make D a potential solution. At the same time, you are responsible for your own self-esteem. That's not an M problem. It's something only you can fix. You know yourself best.

So my reco is 1) a good IC for yourself and 2) a good lawyer to get an idea of what life after D would be. Among other things, a good IC can help you separate problems you can solve for yourself and problems you need your H to help solve.

70 isn't too old, IMO. You got an average life expectancy of almost 17 years in the US. That's too long to live with someone you don't want to live with.

If you can't do something in front of your spouse that you do with another person then it's something you should not be doing

If you have to hide what you are doing from your spouse then it's something you should not be doing, that is blatantly obvious

Can men and women be just friends? Sure I guess it's possible but most Affairs start at work. First comes the Small Talk where you learn different things about each other. Next comes deeper conversations with topics such as my wife/ my husband really pissed me off last night or I'm having trouble with this at home.

The "friendship" continues to deepen, a hug becomes a peck on the cheek, a peck becomes a real kiss which evolves to sex. The BS figures it out, confronts, the cheater says "I have no idea how this got so out of control."

When conversations at work between men and women have nothing to do with work trouble is brewing

I had the same experience.

My H had a 4 year EA and saw this woman 4x a week. I knew from the moment I met her she was "interested". In fact we used to laugh about it.

Then the denial started. Then the stonewalling.

It finally ended and I then allowed it to be swept under the rug.

Ow#2 told me that my H admitted to her that he cheated w/ OW#1. I’m now convinced it was more than an EA and obviously I have no proof. But my gut was screaming at me then and I knew I was right all along. He just made me out to be crazy and insecure.

My point is it doesn’t matter if there was sex or no sex or it’s nothing.

It’s the disrespect my H showed to me when I voiced my concerns.

And for that reason it made it easier for him to cheat the second time. Because he saw me as a pushover and nothing to be concerned about. He sweet talked his way out of it the first time and assumed he could do it again. Except w/ affair #2 I wasn’t the same trusting person and refused to let him get away with anything.

Please don’t be me. Don’t make my mistakes.

You don’t need proof or anything like that. You just need to let your H know that you are very unhappy he is choosing his own selfish needs and ego boost over your feelings.

Honestly he needs to quit his job and find a new one. Because he will swear up and down "nothing is going on" but he will still have contact w/ her and just hide it even more.

So sorry for you.

[This message edited by The1stWife at 1:51 AM, Thursday, July 24th]