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Dr. Soolers- the fact that she’s lost nothing yet and that she is not acting particularly remorseful IS eating away at me. Sometimes I’m not sure she isn’t the soulless type of cheater that you describe. Obviously if I decide that is true, it’s the single life for me.

Its a hard assessment to make. To be honest, I'm not sure anyone can ever know. That's why personally I'm a huge fan of red lines that cannot be crossed and cannot be forgiven.

I'd suppose even if my former colleagues partner heard a recording of that conversation we had, he'd worm his way out of it. 'I was just talking shit with the guys'. 'I didn't mean a word'. 'I was just showing off' etc. People can talk themselves into accepting even the most degrading of things.

For my money, 5 years of clandestine meetups with your sons coach is about as soulless as you can get.

[This message edited by DRSOOLERS at 11:04 AM, Tuesday, March 31st]

This seems pretty important:

Frank- I’m sure this is a combination of those reasons. It is her desire to back me off and maintain control of this whole situation that I’ve never understood before and which scares me most. Since that is still there, I don’t see her changing.

Is she getting advice from anywhere? I wish she’d be helped to understand that she needs to let go of controlling the outcome, and that doing so, as you have pointed out, is only frustrating you and wasting the opportunity you are giving her.

There’s a book called How to Help Your Spouse Heal from Your Affair that she could read, among many others. Or you could print this out for her (without letting her know about this website): https://www.survivinginfidelity.com/documents/library/articles/recovery/what-every-ws-needs-to-know/

It’s still early days as others have said.

On another topic: back in the day, one of your first red flags was the ridiculous amount of activity between them on your phone records. That’s hard evidence that it was more than just sex, just saying. You don’t need a noticeable amount of activity if all you have to say is "are we still on for Thursday?" or whatever. There’s not much you can do to steel yourself for when you have to hear her say she loved him, but it’s probably coming, and you might want to think about what your follow up questions are going to be.

[This message edited by Letmebefrank at 2:35 PM, Tuesday, March 31st]

Just from what you have written here, it seems like you are tending to her like an invalid, she is dribbling out information that is more and more soul destroying with each new fact, while the kids and every other person in your life is in the dark. That seems untenable. Are you still working? How are you holding it all together? What are you doing for your own mental well being? If this pattern continues you are going to end up hating her and nowhere to turn. Why not let the family in and get some help?

The song "No Matter What" by Badfinger reminds me of your situation.

She shown you what she is numerous times throughout your relationship. But, you continue on in a relationship with her just to rinse and repeat. Time to break this cycle.

Peace to you!

You will dwell on the why if the affair had an emotional component. It did. There is no way that it didn’t that wood be reasonable within the context of your marriage.

You have so much chaos around you that checking off items as knowns is useful.

As I hsve contemplated this thread, I return to an oft commented on theme here and on like sites dealing with marital treason and that is tolerance. Put another way, what is your tolerance for the actual treason and its exhausting aftermath? This concept of tolerance varies wildly from person to person. I tolerated far too much for far too long. My post Dday thoughts and actions were strongly influenced by a number of factors such as being a younger husband and father with elementary school aged children, my mal-adapted confrontation style due to growing up in an absolutely chaotic and sometimes abusive home. I also smoked a lot of "hopium" and "copium" during the almost ten years that I tolerated her betrayal and remorselessness. It cost me. Greatly. But in the end I learned that I was throwing my tolerance into a bottomless pit. But I did learn and was then able to move on with a lot of help from a good therapist who helped knock the "white knight syndrome" out of my psyche.

That said, others have not tolerated much at all, having reached the end of their tolerance very shortly after Dday (or maybe right after), while others have tolerated much more for far longer before reaching the end of their rope. I have seen people here move quickly and decisively while others linger for years. Sadly, some just continue on in this status quo and live in an emotional deficit as their vitality is drained from them day after day. As one WW commented about her BH years after Dday, "His smile no longer reaches his eyes".

There is a universal truth though, everyone pays. Everyone. The only question is how much and for how long.

Ive said it before, everyone deals with marital treason differently. We try to measure our internal endurance guages at a time of extreme stress. Funny thing is though, that those guages can give false readings at times like these and really mislead us because they were never meant to help work through these extraordinary circumstances. Many have described it as their world being turned upside down.

Sir, only you know when you hace reached the end of your tolerance. When enough is enough. My hope is that at the end of that time, there is enough vitality left for you to rebuild, with or without her.

I wish you well.

[This message edited by DobleTraicion at 9:59 PM, Tuesday, March 31st]

Dr. S- yes, soulless, and the lack of much believable/realistic explanation makes it worse. I’m doing my best to guard against being the person that falls for whatever explanation is given.

Frank- I brought up what I think is her need to control the relationship/conversation, etc. today and explained that she has to accept that she is not the victim of anything in this case. It seemed to crack her shell a bit and she actually tried (I think) to honestly answer some of my questions about her affair. She actually started to admit that there was an emotional aspect to it.
The red flag I took from it though was that it is starting to sound like she was the one who pursued this relationship and he just took what he was getting. (Apparently she was the one initiating most of the contact as time went on.) This makes me worried that he may have cut things off because she got a little too attached and she will still be looking for love elsewhere, as I’m just the safe, consolation prize.
And thanks for the tip about the post from this site, I sent that to her about a week ago. It hasn’t helped yet but she has read it a few times, so who knows.

Long Sad- I’m a semi-retired old guy with an easy full time job. Our kids are great, I stay in good shape and don’t have a lot of stress other than this nightmare. I let her family in on about 75% of what has been going on with her and they try to keep in touch with her but she is really keeping them at arm’s length. I think she is too embarrassed to get into it with any of her family. I think her family believes I will keep her safe, and they’re right, for now. If I decide to make a move toward separation, they’ll be fully involved because I’m not going to just leave her alone. Not a white knight, just not a bad guy either.

Shark- agreed, the information about the emotional part of things is just starting to come out.

Doble- the limits of my tolerance are approaching, but I feel that I’m at a bit of an advantage in that, I can pull the chord at any time (months not years).
Your advice about guarding against complacency is well-taken. I’m not going back to being the guy that worries about what his wife is up to again. I wasted too many years doing that while she lied and snuck around. That’s what makes me think the end of my marriage is approaching, I just can’t see how trust is rebuilt after catastrophic destruction like this.

Again, I really want to thank everyone for the respectful, thoughtful and very helpful comments/advice. Therapy is ongoing but it’s only once a week and that is an eternity at a time like this. Peace to you all.

Recovering from infidelity is a very long process, irrespective of if you divorce or reconcile.
I can share that I ended my relationship and thought I was "over it" about 2 years later, only to have the good sense to seek therapy about 15 years later to finally deal with the PTSD infidelity gifted me. In retrospect I don’t think I was capable of dealing with the PTSD for maybe the first 2-5 years, but had I recognized it earlier I could have been rid of it within 10 years. Some things simply need time to mature, slow down, become recognizable.
Not saying you should wait 10 years, nor that you will take 10 years. But rather making two points: This takes time, and there is recovery you need to make irrespective of if you remain married or not.

As a young cop the veteran who trained me made an astute comment: He told me to notice than no matter what, the very vast majority of people would excuse or mitigate anything wrong they did. Like nearly everybody I stopped speeding would comment about just following the flow of traffic, I should focus on "real" crime, they had an emergency or whatever. Wife abusers would explain – in detail – why they had no option but to beat her senseless. Burglars would whine about how everyone is insured and would get a new TV paid by the insurance – basically doing them a favor. Heck… the worst I ever heard was the guy trying to convince me that 10 year old boys enjoyed getting oral from him, therefore no harm…

We do this too. I’m not losing weight because of my slow metabolism (something I can’t control) and it hasn’t got anything to do with the cake I allowed myself…

Your wife was capable of initiating, entering, and being in an affair. At each and every minute of time for all those years she KNEW it was wrong; knew it was damaging. I get it that she compartmentalized, that she never thought you would know and that she thought she would be able to keep this a secret all the time.
I get it also that when any semi-sane, normal person looks at all this they are thinking "WTF! How could she imagine all that?!"

Maybe your first evaluation might be if the above is "normal" thinking for your wife. Can she compartmentalize other things in life, does she show rich narcissist behavior, has she shown a two-sided moral compass on other things in general? Like… is she nice to kids but kicks kittens?

This is why – if this was an ongoing affair – I would be telling you as loudly as I could to expose it to all stakeholders. Like… We can imagine that back then when the affair was ongoing she would be thinking "Alas! In a fair world I would ride away into the sunset with my soulmate Mr WonderSex and live on lobster and steak for eternity, but the Evil Ogre my husband has me trapped with 3 kids, a mortgage and a planned holiday to Disney"
Once exposed – once you tell her she’s free to be with Mr WonderSex her soulmate and there is nothing holding her back… these compartments crumble fast. Fantasy becomes reality. Even if soulmate had left his wife for her then she realizes he too drinks beer while watching the Sunday game, farts and scratches his scrotum. Nobody is happy for her. Nobody thinks she’s justified in the affair…

But you aren’t dealing with an "active" affair. You are dealing with a wayward spouse that has been battling the justification of her affair for years internally, and now in some desperate attempt to save her marriage/status/lifestyle/reputation….

Frankly – to expect a "real" why from her now is not realistic, because she’s not clear on the why herself… It might take months of therapy.

I suggested you give yourself a timeline – a deadline if you like.
Set yourself a goal for what YOU want, and what you can realistically get. Like… I personally think that within 30 days you have the "truth" on factual info. Things like when started, how carried through, when ended, ongoing contact, who knew, where, how…
Maybe even make it clear to her that her truths will be validated with a polygraph. Explain that it’s a tool for her benefit. If she passes it indicates honesty.

When that day comes – say the 20th of April – you can evaluate if you have a believable picture of the factual reality. You can evaluate with yourself it what you have is enough for you to decide there is no hope. You can then set yourself a new target and a new date. Like if on the 20th you believe you have the truth, then set the 1st of May as the deadline for a polygraph IF you want to remain married, or for the date where you have hired the attorney.

This is a marathon. The goal isn’t 46.145 yards wide and 2 yards ahead of you. The goal is 46.145 yards AHEAD of you, and your path towards it narrow. The pace and who you run with is up to you.